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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: rm91 on Saturday 26 January 19 10:43 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
My great x5 grandparents were John and Christiana Campbell. The 1841 and 1851 census in Hillgate, Gateshead, Durham, say they were born in Scotland, but I am having a lot of trouble tracing them. The census gives John's rough birth year as around 1800, and Christiana's as around 1807.
As far as I can see their first couple of children were baptised in Newcastle Upon Tyne (Christiana in 1827 at John Knox (Presbyterian), and Amelia in 1834)...
Their son James was baptised in Gateshead in 1839 and the online transcription gives the mother's maiden name as Sinclair.
I've a few Scottish ancestors I'd love to know more about but I am having trouble without finding and verifying a birthplace or marriage. I am new to Scottish research so any tips would be welcome! Thank you.
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Scotlands people is the best place for Scottish research
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/search-our-records
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The source of almost all the basic data for Scotland is Scotland's People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk or SP for short. It's pay-per-view but modestly priced.
SP has two marriages of a John Campbell to a Christina/Christian Sinclair, one in Bowmore and Kilarrow (Isle of Islay) in 1825 and one in Leith in 1826. Note that this doesn't mean there wasn't another one of which no record has survived.
John Campbell and Christian Sinclair had several children baptised in Bowmore and Kilarrow between 1826 and 1830, so I think you can safely eliminate them from your search.
The index listing at FamilySearch for the Leith marriage also mentions an Angus Sinclair. You would need to view the original at SP to see what it says and why it mentions Angus Sinclair.
One of the useful tools in finding Scottish ancestors can be the naming tradition -
First daughter after mother's mother
Second daughter after father's mother
Third daughter after mother
First son after father's father
Second son after mother's father
Third son after father
Subsequent children after great-grandparents, uncles/aunts, other relatives, friends, minister/doctor/laird/schoolmaster/prominent citizen or their wives.
But I don't think it will be useful in this family.
I see from the 1841 and 1851 censuses that the children were Christiana, Amelia, Catherine, James, John, William and Alexander, and that there is quite a long gap between Christiana and Amelia, so there could have been two or three missing children. If there were, and we don't know their names, we can't deduce anything from their names. The only possible inference would be that Christiana's mother's name was Christiana or a variant thereof.
It also doesn't help that the sons are James, John, William and Alexander, those being by far the commonest male given names in Scotland.
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I noted the space of years between daughter Christiana 1827 and Amelia 1834 in Newcastle on Tyne (NoT) - and at first wondered if Amelia was a different mother/ 2nd wife wife.
Then I saw too, the Leith marriage in 1826, as a possibility:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYSM-JJ4
And the two baptisms, the 2nd being a good fit between Christiana and Amelia:
Christiana, 1 Jul 1827 at Groat Market Meeting NC, NoT, John CAMPBELL & Christian
Catherine CAMPBELL, 3 Apr 1831 NoT, John CAMPBELL & Christian
The Groat Market Meeting House, was Scotch Presbytarian
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/newcastle-historical-account/pp370-414#h2-0005
The presence of a 5 year old Catherine in 1841, doesn't negate the possibility of Catherine baptised 1831 - it was common for (especially Scottish couples) to name the next born child of the same gender, after an earlier born child who had died.
Cheers
AMBLY
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I will toss this out based on his occupation as millwright (1851).
John Campbell (joiner) and Christina Sinclair South Leith 1826. She was the daughter of the late Angus a shoemaker in Caithness.
Forfarian contribution and the above are the only two OPR's listed but there could be more that are lost.
Don
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Thank you ALL for the information given, I've certainly learned a lot and there's something to go on.
The presence of a 5 year old Catherine in 1841, doesn't negate the possibility of Catherine baptised 1831 - it was common for (especially Scottish couples) to name the next born child of the same gender, after an earlier born child who had died.
Cheers
AMBLY
It was their daughter Catherine (baptised 18 Sep 1836) who I descend from, but there could well have been an earlier Catherine.
I will toss this out based on his occupation as millwright (1851).
John Campbell (joiner) and Christina Sinclair South Leith 1826. She was the daughter of the late Angus a shoemaker in Caithness.
Forfarian contribution and the above are the only two OPR's listed but there could be more that are lost.
Don
I did just find a baptism for a Christian Sinclair in 1810, to Angus Sinclair and Margaret MacKay in Reay, Caithness. IF this is her, it would probably have to mean she was maybe a few years old when baptised...
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Angus/McKay was the shoemaker there are two others who were not.
This Campbell/Sinclair marriage occurred in June, when was the date of the birth/baptism of Christina in 1827?
Don
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Angus/McKay was the shoemaker there are two others who were not.
This Campbell/Sinclair marriage occurred in June, when was the date of the birth/baptism of Christina in 1827?
Don
I found Christiana's baptism online as the following:
First name(s) Christiana
Last name Campbell
Birth date 25 Apr 1827
Baptism year 1827
Baptism date 01 Jul 1827
Parish Newcastle
Church John Knox (Presbyterian)
Father's first name(s) John
About the father joiner
Mother's first name(s) Christiana
Residence St. Johns
Also note the 'joiner' link there as well.
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Thanks, I was trying to guesstimate if perhaps she was with child which would explain why she married young.
Don
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I did just find a baptism for a Christian Sinclair in 1810, to Angus Sinclair and Margaret MacKay in Reay, Caithness. IF this is her, it would probably have to mean she was maybe a few years old when baptised...
Indeed. Christiana was 45 in the 1851 census, suggesting that she was born in 1805/1806. I see that Angus Sinclair and Margaret Mackay had Elizabeth, baptised 1804; Angus, 1805; Catherine, 1807; Christian, 1810, Alexander, 1811; Donald, 1812; Barbara, 1816; James, 1820, Elizabeth, 1823; Aeneasina, 1825; so they seem to have been pretty regular in having their family baptised as they came along. Therefore I think it is unlikely that your Christiana was the daughter of Angus Sinclair and Margaret Mackay.
But in the (IMO unlikely) event that she was the daughter of this couple, why is there no Angus among her sons and no Margaret among her daughters?
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Thanks, I was trying to guesstimate if perhaps she was with child which would explain why she married young.
Don
The marriage certainly fits - It was in June 1826, first daughter Christiana born ten months later.
John Campbell who marries Christina Sinclair in South Leith in 1826 gives occupation as joiner.
My John Campbell gives occupation as joiner when his first daughter Christiana is born in April 1827.
But the marriage says Christina's father was Angus, the baptism for a Christian Sinclair in 1810, to Angus Sinclair and Margaret MacKay in Reay, Caithness, means that if she was born in 1810, she'd have been about sixteen at marriage, and about seventeen at first childbirth, as Forfarian points out below.
But on the census entries, she gives her age as:
1851: 45 years old (born circa 1806)
1871: 66 years old (born circa 1805)
Indeed. Christiana was 45 in the 1851 census, suggesting that she was born in 1805/1806. I see that Angus Sinclair and Margaret Mackay had Elizabeth, baptised 1804; Angus, 1805; Catherine, 1807; Christian, 1810, Alexander, 1811; Donald, 1812; Barbara, 1816; James, 1820, Elizabeth, 1823; Aeneasina, 1825; so they seem to have been pretty regular in having their family baptised as they came along. Therefore I think it is unlikely that your Christiana was the daughter of Angus Sinclair and Margaret Mackay.
But in the (IMO unlikely) event that she was the daughter of this couple, why is there no Angus among her sons and no Margaret among her daughters?
Thanks all!
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Forfarian,
I concur, the naming pattern does not match perfectly. I thought about this, but she has no sibling named Margaret or Angus either.
And yes it is possible this might not be the correct family. There could be another unrecorded Angus out there who was a shoemaker with his wife and children who match perfectly or simply members of another church.
I have always said the definitive proof lays in their death. Do the English records post 1851 not include parentage?
Don
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Sadly not, Don :-\
Monica
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I have always said the definitive proof lays in their death. Do the English records post 1851 not include parentage?
English death certificates don't even give the name of the spouse unless the spouse is the informant, let alone the names of the deceased's parents.
It's a bit of a long shot, but I wonder whether there might be a gravestone or burial record of an Angus Sinclair, shoemaker, in Caithness some time between 1800 and 1826? You could try Caithness Family History Society http://caithnessfhs.org.uk/
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Hi all, sorry for not replying sooner.
Thanks once again for the information, ideas, and advice.
Doesn't look to be very straightforward, but I'll continue to try and look into it!
Thank you.