RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: bigbazza on Saturday 19 January 19 10:55 GMT (UK)
-
Hi,
Harry Needham = Zilpha Denton in the 3rd qtr. of 1938 in Barnsley, Yorkshire. Vol 9c. Page 566.
Harry Needham = Dorothy Holliday in the 3rd qtr. of 1938 in Barnsley, Yorkshire. Vol 9c. Page 624.
I need to establish the name of Harry Needham's father in either of these two marriages in order to move on with my research and help another researcher who is also stuck.
Unfortunately, we are unable to find the actual marriage records online and I wondered if anyone on RootsChat knows of a way to look up the information elsewhere before we go down the line of buying certificates.
Many thanks, Baz.
-
Marriage certificates for this time are unlikely to be online. Have you found them on the 1939 register
ADDED Anyone looking them up elsewhere for you would need to know which parish they were as Barnsley RD covers a large area https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/barnsley.html
-
Hi,
Yes. I have found both in the 1939 register. Details below;
Needham/Denton. ED Letter Code: KAAR. Borough, Barnsley. Reg and Sub District; 507-1. Residence; 4 Grace Street.
Needham/Holliday. ED Letter Code: KABZ. Borough Barnsley. Reg and Sub District; 507-1. Residence; 29 Days Croft.
I hope this is of assistance.
Baz.
-
I suspect what Rosie had in mind was that you take the dates of birth from the 1939 register and try to locate their birth registrations. These should give the mothers' maiden names, from which you might be able to identify the marriages and thus the full names of their parents.
It would be a bit easier if they were old enough to be in the 1911 census, but with marriages in 1938 that may not be the case.
I might have time to have a look at this later if you or someone else hasn't beaten me to it.
-
Harry Needham who married Zilpha was born 15 Apr 1916 and death reg barnsley July 1986
Harry Needham who married Dorothy was born 11 jun 1916
more shortly
Suz
-
Possible birth registrations
Births Jun 1916
Needham Harry Dale Barnsley 9c 457
Needham Harry Needham Prestwich 8d 511
Births Sep 1916
Needham Harry Roscow Bury 8c 904
I included the September one in case the June birth date one was registered late.
Without any further information to hand, the Barnsley one is most likely.
-
Harry Needham who married Zilpha was born 15 Apr 1916 and death reg barnsley July 1986
Harry Needham who married Dorothy was born 11 jun 1916
more shortly
Suz
I cannot find the death reg for Harry Needham married to Dorothy
There are trees on A******y which give both Harry's father as Matthew!!!
Marriage certs need to be ordered - you can do it online from GRO
I would order the marriage to Dorothy first
Suz
-
If it is the Needham/Dale one then this appears to be the parents marriage
Marriages Dec 1902
>>Dale Elizabeth Barnsley 9c 434
Drower Priscilla Barnsley 9c 434
>>Needham Matthew Barnsley 9c 434
Roberts William Barnsley 9c 434
This couple are on the 1911 census in Barnsley with three daughters - four children born, three still living.
Girls births:-
NEEDHAM, LUCY DALE
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 238
NEEDHAM, ALICE DALE
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 266 Order
NEEDHAM, MARY DALE
GRO Reference: 1910 D Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 219
NEEDHAM, HILDA DALE
GRO Reference: 1912 J Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 471
Harry appears to be the last one after Hilda.
The deceased one was Frederick, born and died 1903
NEEDHAM, FREDERICK DALE (Birth)
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 270
The only way you will find who the fathers were for the marriages that you have found is to obtain the certificates. You may be able to search for them at the relevant Record Office, but you would need to check if they have the marriage records in question. However as Rosie has said, you really need to know exactly where they married, otherwise the search could take a very long time.
-
Hi All,
I do have the birth dates of both Harry Needham's but they don't help me because they are both in the 2nd qtr of 1916. I also have the name of the father of one of the Harry Needham's. I just need the name of the father for one of the marriages and I will be able to match everything up.
Thanks, Baz.
-
Harry Needham who married Zilpha was born 15 Apr 1916 and death reg barnsley July 1986
Harry Needham who married Dorothy was born 11 jun 1916
It may not help with the original question, but there's a death registration for a Brian Harry Needham with that birth date, in the Barnsley district in July 1995.
-
Hi ArthurK,
Yes. I also have that death registration but as you say, it may not help with the original question.
Two Harry Needham's born in the same qtr. of 1916. Married in the same qtr. in Barnsley in 1938 and I have now found that they both lived in the same area of Barnsley (Monk Bretton) in 1939.
Amazing coincidences,
Baz.
-
Hmm interesting.....
Grace Street and Daycroft are six minutes walk away from each other.
Could we be looking at a bigamist ??? ???
It is an incredible co-incidence to have two Harry Needham's living that close to each other. A lot of digging and delving needed here!!
-
Hmm interesting.....
Grace Street and Daycroft are six minutes walk away from each other.
Could we be looking at a bigamist ??? ???
It is an incredible co-incidence to have two Harry Needham's living that close to each other. A lot of digging and delving needed here!!
They have different occupations (and dates of birth) - maybe he does one job during the day and the other at night ;D ;D
-
Possible birth registrations
Births Jun 1916
Needham Harry Dale Barnsley 9c 457
Needham Harry Needham Prestwich 8d 511
Births Sep 1916
Needham Harry Roscow Bury 8c 904
I included the September one in case the June birth date one was registered late.
Without any further information to hand, the Barnsley one is most likely.
This probably eliminates one of them
Harry Needham
Birth 08/05/1916
Death 06/1977 Rochdale Greater Manchester England
-
The two Harrys of interest don't have that birth date Rosie, they are 15 April 1916 and 11 June 1916.
So something is wrong somewhere.
Added: The May birth date one is a single man in 1939. Living in Chadderton, Lancs. That could suggest that he is the apparent illegitimate one, birth registered in Prestwich which is in Lancs.
-
I was just eliminating one of the births listed. I assumed that the death I posted probably belonged to one of the Lancashire births though more likely to be the June qtr than September qtr :)
-
Going back to John Needham, born in 1820, I have found that he appears to have had 2 wives - Sarah (b1816) and Harriet (b1819) and with whom he had his several children. Was he also a bigamist? (I am related to these Needhams, my Great Grandfather being George Needham of Barnsley).
-
Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
There are a few John NEEDHAMs born about 1820 in Yorkshire, it's hard to be sure which one you are looking at. If you give us the details of your Great Grandfather George NEEDHAM I hope we will be able to help you work backwards :)
Regards,
Daisy