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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: brabazon on Monday 02 August 04 06:56 BST (UK)
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Hi all can anyone please help me find out about the famhouse
at Bryn y Baal owned by George Taylor 1841 born -1914 death his father before was Thomas Taylor of Hawarden and Ann Tellet and his father was George Taylor the miller .. I would be very grateful for any local knowledge as i have looked everywhere and can find nothing on the farm even looked at old maps anything at all on this family will be appreciated kind regards lesley queensland australia
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Hi Lesley,
I think theres a spelling mistake in there. Baal is not a welsh word. Unfortunately I can't think what it could be either.
The best bet would be to find George on one of the census, e.g. 81, (it does say Bryn y Baal) look at the dwellings emunerated previously and subsequently. (Aberlanerch farm and Bryn y Baal main road). Hmm.
That way, you should be able to determine where exactly the place is.
http://www.old-maps.co.uk
Give the address of Aberlanerch farm, you get 2 options, one is Bryn Road. Select the other one. You get the full address with post code.
Select "View your map". I chose Flintshire, but the place is right on the border between Wales and England, the coords are the same, so it doesn't matter.
You can then zoom on to the neighbours farm.
Should help you on the way.
Good luck,
D ap D
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Hi,
You spell it like this Bryny-Bal. The farm buildings are still there but it isn't a farm anymore. I think the Roberts live there now.
Hope it has helped!!
Josie
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Sorry its Bryn-y-Bal
Josie
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Hi there,
Bryn y Baal does exist and is actually spelt that way.There is some discussion on the origins of the name, which can be found on the following site;
www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/askalocal/pages/gen14.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/askalocal/pages/gen14.shtml)
I assume you have found the location of Bryn Y Baal on a map of the area.
Best of luck.................. :)
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Thank you Josie and Llwyd, for the info, I haven't yet checked the map as its not available at the moment - Maintenaince! - I will try later.
Just to explain, my friend Lesley first started making enquiries on my behalf under the RootsChat name Brabazon - my farm property name - in Tasmania, she has just recently changed "Brabazon" over to me, so it was a great pleasant surprise to get a reply to the query.
In the 1881 census the dwelling of Bryn y Baal (as spelt) Farm House, Argoed, Flint was home to my grandmother Mary Taylor, then 2, daughter of George Taylor and Ann(e) Taylor (nee Roberts). Mary's eldest brother Thomas Edward Taylor inherited the farm - I think- then afterwards his son Harold Taylor lived on the farm. Harold's children Tom, Jim and Joy, are my era, and Jim was in my class at Pant-y-mwyn School in Mold. I am still in contact with my third cousin Joy however she only remembers the farm being called Argoed, and I don't think she recalls the farmhouse of which I have a photo. This photo was known as Grandmother Mary Gamble's home as a child, and I wondered if this was the same place. There is a scribble on the back saying Taylor's farm near Northop. I will attempt to attach the photo in another post but will have to find out how first.
Thank you for your responses,
All the best, Zoë
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Hi, ive just spoke to my dad and he said there is a farm called Argoed farm, he said he thinks the Bletches own it now. i think its spelt like that.
Hope its helps
Josie
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Thanks Josie, am still trying to get the photo I have on the system - I will have to attempt it later on in the week when I have more time. Cheers Zoë
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My sister had a friend with the name Taylor who lived at Argoed Farm which is very close to Bryn Y Baal (that is the way it's spelt now) I'm going back about 15-20 years but they could still be there.
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Thank you Slippers, I think you have confirmed for me that Argoed Farm and Bryn Y Baal are the same place. My third cousins lived at Argoed, Jim Taylor was in my class at school in the late fifties and his younger sister Joy was in my sisters class. I checked with Joy a while back and she did not know the farm as being Bryn Y Ball as named in the census of 1881.
Cheers Zoe (in Tasmania)
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Hello there,
I've just confirmed that the Taylors are still at Argoed Farm.
The info below was obtained from Yell.com
S.D Taylor
Distance: 1 mile NW (from my home)
Argoed Farm, Main Rd, New Brighton, Mold, Clwyd CH7 6QQ
Tel: 01352 754063
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Hi Slippers,
Thank you very much, this will be my 4th cousin, son of Joy's older brother - who I didn't meet. I have since found out - that when my grandmother's brother Thomas E Taylor took over the farm, she and her parents moved to a farm close to Holywell - (where I lived until I was 14). So perhaps the photo I mentioned in a message above earlier, may be of that house near Holywell, as Joy said it definitely was not Argoed farm.
Thanks for your help, Zoe.
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Hi there
I'm researching my own family who had origins in the Mold area. It appears that my great grandmother was born at Bryn y Baal 06.11.1874 as stated on her birth certificate and spelt that way on the original. Her name was Martha Ann Hopwood and her father Isaiah Hopwood. On the 1861 Census he was living at Bryn y Baal, Argoed. My great grandmother said he was a farmer on her marriage certificate but on her birth certificate and in the 1861 census he was a Coal Miner. By 1881 the family were living in Mold. Perhaps he was a farm worker but it confirms that Bryn y Baal did exist and it was also known as Argoed. If anyone knows any more about the Hopwoods I'd love to hear.
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The name was originally Bryn-y-Bal (with a circumflex over the 'a' of Bal). The name according to the leading authority on Place names of Flintshire comes from a 'Middle English' word 'bale' - pronounced to rhyme with Carl - not 'bale' (as of hay) or bail (as in get out jail!). When this is written in Welsh, the circumflex indicates that the 'a' is lengthened (as in Carl) rather than the usual short 'a' in Welsh. Apparently 'bale' in middle english means small round hill. Early maps show is spelt as Bryn y Bal (with circumflex) i.e. 1841 Ordnance Survey i inch map etc. Note Mynydd Isa is not shown! Baal is an Anglised form of 'bal'. See 'Place names of East Flintshire by Hywel Wyn Owen ISBN 9780708312421 Price £55.00!!! The ultimate research on Flintshire place names!
I have no record of your Martha Ann Hopwood born 1874 in any census for Bryn-y-Baal (or Mold area). I have a Martha Ann Hopwood who was aged 'under 1 month' at the time of the 1871 census. She was the daughter of Thomas b1828 and Ann b1830 Hopwood. Thomas was Isiah's older brother. Thomas and Ann lived in Bryn y Baal in 1881 then moved to New Brighton. Martha is shown there aged 20 single. There is also an 'unexplained' grandson - Edward aged 1 living with the family. By the time of the 1901 census, Thomas was a widower living in Northop with Edward now aged 11. No trace of Martha Ann!
Isiah Hopwood (he is sometimes shown as Isaiah and or Hoopwood in various censues) in shown living at Bryn y Baal) in all the censuses. The problem with the area is that it is crossed by an Ecclesiastical boundary (that of the Mold and Bistre parishes). Argoed is the name of the ancient township which covered the area which now includes the villages of Bryn-y-Baal, Mynydd Isa and New Brighton. Mynydd Isa was a tiny hamlet which doesn't even appear on the 1841 1inch OS map. Other hamlet names such as Pant y Fawenog have disappeared all together! It is difficult to follow the folk in the area as each census describes the area differently. For instance they live in Bryn-y-Baal in one, Chambers Lane in another (Chambers lane was Argoed Road in early censuses!) and Argoed in another. Sometimes they are shown as being in Mold ad other times in Bistre! All very difficult!
Ian Jolly (former Chairman, Argoed Community Council)
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I am researching the Owens family who also came from Argoed area. In particular I would like to find a marriage between George Owens b about 1806 and who was living at Panty Vownog in 1841. He married Sarah Edwards b 1809 at Llanferres, Denbs some time around 1831. I have found 6 children born between 1831 and 1848: John, Eliza, Sarah, Mary, Ann and Isaac. Isaac was my g grandfather and was born at Argoed in 1848.
Isaac married Elizabeth Hughes, b 1855 nr Tyddyn, Bistre, daughter of Ellis Hughes and Margaret Jones.
In 1871 Isaac was a labourer in the brickworks - does anyone have any clues as to which brickworks this might have been ?
Would love to hear from anyone with connections to these families.
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I have a Mary Evans, born Bryn Y Bal, bapt 7/5/1808 Argoed Flint.
Parent Thomas Evans and Mary nee Spenser
Anyone know of these. ???