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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Obwan on Monday 31 December 18 05:20 GMT (UK)

Title: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: Obwan on Monday 31 December 18 05:20 GMT (UK)
This link is from the Scottish indexes - Register of Extracted Decrees.
I was thinking of purchasing this record but going by the example given I doubt if will give me any additional helpful information.  If you think otherwise I would take the plunge.
https://www.scottishindexes.com/courttranscript.aspx?courtid=35001023
Pursuer   Marion Pollock, daughter of and residing with Andrew Pollock (Grocer, Airdrie), Stirling Street, Airdrie
Defender   Margaret Storrie, High Street, Airdrie
Child's Date of Birth   1845
Year Extract Issued   1848
Sheriff Court   Airdrie
County   Lanarkshire
NRS Reference   SC35/7/1 p. 300
Notes   The defender Margaret Storrie of High Street, Airdrie is currently in posession of the pursuer's 3 year old illegitimate son (date of birth not given), which she has been asked to hand over to the pursuer (the child's father is William Cook, Underground M.


I am trying to find any of the people mentioned in this record in either the 1841 or 1851 census.   I would think unless Andrew Pollock died between 1848 and 1851 being a grocer he would still be at the same address.  I have searched for every grocer named Andrew but nothing comes up for Stirling Street.   
I have no idea of anyone's ages.   The only clue is William Cook and Marion's daughter Margaret Cook was born circa 1843 in Old Monkland.  On Margaret's marriage certificate her father is deceased.   Her mother is listed as Marion Cook m/s Pollock but I cannot find a marriage certificate for William Cook to Marion Pollock. 
Unlike the England and Wales census I cannot scroll through page by page.   Any help/suggestion would be greatly appreciated. 
Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: doddsie4 on Monday 31 December 18 09:16 GMT (UK)
1841 census, Main St, Airdrie
Andrew Pollock, 40
Elizabeth, 35
Marion, 12
Andrew, 12
Mgt, 7
James, 5
Eliz, 2
Marion, 60

Does this look like the family?      Perhaps the census was taken at Main St, while the Grocer's shop was at Stirling St.       Stirling St, is still there in Airdrie.       
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: Obwan on Monday 31 December 18 09:37 GMT (UK)
Hello Doddsie4
I purchased this through Scotlandspeople.  Andrew's occupation is not a fit.   He is listed as a Ironstone Caster living in High Street. Otherwise I thought it looked good.
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 31 December 18 18:57 GMT (UK)
Haven't been able to find Andrew in the early censuses. There is this entry though in the Wills & Testaments section of Scotlands People:

Andrew Pollok
15/10/1880
Family Grocer, Westburn, Newton, d. 12/09/1880 at Westburn, Newton, testate
Glasgow Sheriff Court Inventories
SC36/48/93

There is a death in Mearns, Renfrewshire in 1880 for a 74 yr old Andrew Pollock. Only two in the whole of Scotland that year and the other entry is a child.

There is an Andrew Pollock in the 1861 & 1871 who is married to a younger woman called Martha. His occupation is that of joiner in these censuses though.

Which is your line? Daughter Marion? When did Marion get married? Did mother Margaret Storrie show as alive or deceased when Marion married? Did Marion go by the name of Cook/Pollock/Storrie?

Monica
   
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: Obwan on Monday 31 December 18 19:23 GMT (UK)
Thank you Monica.  You have been searching hard on my account.   The line I am following is Cook.   Trying to get back a generation from Margaret Cook.  I know her parents are William Cook and Marion Pollock.  Other than names I have nothing on them.  William shows as deceased on Margaret's marriage certificate (1861) but not Marion. 
For all my searching I have not found a baptism for Maggie or a marriage for her parents.   To be honest I'm not a 100% sure this is the correct family it's just the details on the court case fit nicely. 
I don't mind buying a certificate or 2 or 3 but I just don't know where to start.  There are so many Pollocks and Cooks and none quite hit the mark.  I thought if I could find Margaret Storrie I might be able to work out her place in all of this.  Was she family (grandmother?) or friend?   
At a guess I'm putting Marion's birth late 1820s and her parents late 1700s - early 1800s
Margaret never named a son Andrew and she had 8.  Her 2nd son was James.  William was her 6th son.  I am going to purchase the 1911 census record to check the number of children, living v deceased.  Maybe I have it completely wrong.  I can't even find Margaret in 1851 unless she was working as a servant at age 11. 
Thank you for all your help.


Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: rosie17 on Monday 31 December 18 19:35 GMT (UK)
Hi all there is a birth for a Andrew Cook 22 February 1844 New Monkland
Father William Cook
Mother Marrian Pollock

Wonder if this could be the child mentioned with Margaret Storrie ?

Rosie
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 31 December 18 19:39 GMT (UK)
With the earlier reference to a Margaret Storrie....think I went off the wrong road!

Your Margaret Cook shows her parents as William Cook and Marion Pollock. When and where was Margaret born? Who did she marry in 1861?

Monica

Added: Just sent your post, Rosie.....looks for good!
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: rosie17 on Monday 31 December 18 19:55 GMT (UK)
There is a William Cook address Sterling Street Airdrie in the 1841 Census
William Cook age 22 occupation Coal heaver

Elizabeth Cook age 22
Ann Cook age 24
Agnes Cook age 9
Alexr Cook age 9 months

No relationship given ..might be a possibility with the address ( Sterling Street )

Rosie
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: rosie17 on Monday 31 December 18 20:23 GMT (UK)
The nearest record I can find for a Margaret Storrie is the 1861 Census
Address 128, High Street Airdrie Lanarkshire
Margaret Storrie age 80 born Airdrie
James  Brace age 57 boarder
Jane Clelland age 46 boarder

Obwan  did you order the full copy from the Court Records ?

Rosie
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 31 December 18 20:36 GMT (UK)
This looks like a possible entry for Margaret Cook in the 1861 census prior to her marriage to Henry McCully in June 1861:

Margaret Cook, 18, lodger, cottonmill worker b. Old Monkland

She shows at the household of a Mary Wilson at 5 Shuttle Row in Blantyre along with other fellow lodgers working in a cottonmill.

Monica
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: Obwan on Monday 31 December 18 20:49 GMT (UK)
Thank you Rosie and Monica.
I will ordered the Court record now.   I wasn't sure there would be much more in it but may of course mention Margaret Storrie's relationship.   Age 80 in 1861 sounds like a good age for a grandmother.   
I will also purchase the birth record for Andrew Pollock.   
Margaret Cook married Henry McCully 21 Jun 1861.   I have the census for 1861 when she is lodging with Margaret Wilson.   
As for William's occupation - would a coal heaver work underground? 
Regards
Olwyn
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 31 December 18 21:11 GMT (UK)
One of a number of definitions for a coal heaver www.wordnik.com/words/coal-heaver

Monica
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 31 December 18 21:18 GMT (UK)
Olwyn, did Margaret Cook's death in 1916 give any further details on her mother? Sometimes later certs include additional surnames if mother was widowed and went on to remarry.

Monica
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: Obwan on Monday 31 December 18 21:30 GMT (UK)
No other names for Marion given other than Cook m/s Pollock.   
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: Obwan on Wednesday 02 January 19 18:22 GMT (UK)
Monica and Rosie.   Just to let you know I purchased a copy of the court case.  It told me little more than the summary.  The only additional information was the child was to be handed back.
Thank you very much for your help.  Something will turn up one day.
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 02 January 19 20:17 GMT (UK)
Marion Pollock and William Cook were not married were they? Have you considered looking at the OPR entry that Rosie found for a christening entry for an Andrew Cook in 1845 to these parents? The wording of natural v. lawful in normally how the status of a child's birth is indicated in the registers. Not unusual for a child to go by the surname of their reputed father.

If Marion Pollock married between 1845-51, the children Margaret and Andrew (assuming no death for Andrew) could show under another surname in the early censuses?

Monica
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: Obwan on Wednesday 02 January 19 21:16 GMT (UK)
I will take a look.  Thank you.
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 02 January 19 21:22 GMT (UK)
That's a pity no other information was on the copy of the court case ...I did have a look for Andrew without putting a surname in but did not have much luck  >:(

Rosie
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 02 January 19 21:53 GMT (UK)
Nor me, Rosie. Also, struggle to find young Margaret in 1851 or 61  :-\

Monica
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 03 January 19 08:44 GMT (UK)
Yes Monica not finding much on this family at all ...Thought the court records would have gave more information ...Maybe poor relief records Mitchell Library might be worth a look .. :(

Rosie
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 03 January 19 19:50 GMT (UK)
The nearest record I can find for a Margaret Storrie is the 1861 Census
Address 128, High Street Airdrie Lanarkshire
Margaret Storrie age 80 born Airdrie
James  Brace age 57 boarder
Jane Clelland age 46 boarder

Obwan  did you order the full copy from the Court Records ?

Rosie

Don't think it helps for now, but Rosie's entry above is likely the correct Margaret Storrie. Margaret Storrie was married to a George Cleland. Daughter Jane born in 1810 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTFR-42K

I think this is her and daughter in 1851:

Margaret Cleland 67 tambourer b. Airdrie
James Brice 47 son in law b. Airdrie
Jane Brice 35 daughter b. Airdrie

Address: 112 High Street, Airdrie

Margaret and daughter also showing as living in High Street Airdrie in 1841:

Margaret Cleland 50 tambourer
Jean Cleland 25 tambourer
Robert Bryce 9

Monica
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 03 January 19 20:10 GMT (UK)
Funny Monica I came to the same conclusion early this afternoon but had to go to dentist
Looks good to me ...Still not nearer with the Pollock side   or Cook  :(

Rosie
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 03 January 19 20:18 GMT (UK)
Looking at 1841 again, the family of Andrew Pollock and Elizabeth Pritchard that Doddsie mentioned earlier is worth another consideration I would say. The household is listed 5 entries before Margaret Storry Cleland and daughter Jane, therefore certainly neighbours who would have known each other well you would think.

In Andrew Snr.'s entry, he is showing on FreeCen as an Ironstone Contractor (not Caster). Not unthinkable that he could also have set up a grocery business in the 1840s in Airdrie. 1851 has him as an ironstone miner, 1861 is anyone's guess on the transcript...(showing as a later winer..likely late miner!).

Marian in the household in 1841 looks to have been registered as Mary Ann I think following her birth in 1824 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYW4-L62  Might help trying this version of the name in searches?

Monica
Title: Re: 1841 or 1851 Searching by an address.
Post by: doddsie4 on Friday 04 January 19 00:31 GMT (UK)
      I was trying an 1851 Census search for Andrew Pollock and noticed something that might or might not interest you.

      Go to SEARCH on Anc...try and click Census & Electoral rolls.     
      Click 1851 UK census on right
      Stroll down and click 1851 Scotland Census
      Type in Andrew Pollock
      Birth: 1829
      Male
      Click Search
      ......Click entry at top
      An Andrew Pollock comes up as a Calico Printer, and he is with a McAllister family.
      On right is a list of suggestions
      Scroll down and find "Web: Scotland Sheriff Court Paternity Decrees
      Click
      Andrew Pollock -- "formerley an Ironstone Carter."     A McAllister child was born.
      Click: Go to Website.
      Open Website
      The McAllister child was born 7 March 1849.

       It is complicated but there is more information amongst those suggestions to the right of the census.