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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent Lookup Requests => Kent => England => Kent Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cienna on Sunday 09 December 18 02:11 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I would appreciate some help in solving this puzzle...if possible.
William James REEVES or HARDING born 1870? New Brompton, Kent, father is said to be either Reuben REEVES or George HARDING....mother Ellen Elizabeth PAXTON.
I am told Reuben and George are the same person, Reuben having changed his name to George HARDING before leaving England to sail to Tasmania in 1872.
Thank you in advance.
Cienna
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If you are researching the origins of George HARDING, arrived Tasmania, 1872 can you give all the information you have about him after this arrival, including the source for the date and place of arrival in Tasmania.
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This is all I have on George HARDING (Reuben REEVES,
Departure from England;
27 Nov 1872
Ship;
Clairellen, for Hobart;
George 27 , Ellen 24 and William 2.
He died in Oatlands, Tasmania, April 2nd, 1894.
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New brompton baptisms are here https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/Details/archive/110004756
Under St Marks, Gillingham. I’ve had a quick look. Nothing so far.
My own family, also in New Brompton, have had events at St Mary’s Gillingham, and some at Old Brompton
The Medway- CityArk site is a pain to use. You have to keep using the + signs until you get to what you want, and then near the top of the page you will see a PDF link. The PDFs take forever to load.
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Thank you, Mckha489 for the link, I was told William James Reves (Reeves?) was baptised at New Brompton. Son of Reuben Mark And Ellen...
I was always under the impression George was George HARDING but now there seems to be a spanner thrown into the works.......totally confused but will plod along with the hope something will come up.
Cheers
Cienna
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REEVES, WILLIAM JAMES PAXTON Order
GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in MEDWAY Volume 02A Page 445
I’ll look again at the New Brompton
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Appreciate your help, thank you so much, I think I have now got the picture, Ellen Paxton is the mother so Reuben Reeves aka George Harding must be the father...would like to know the reason for him changing his name before coming to Tasmania.
Still baffled but hope to fine a way around it all.
Cheers
Cienna
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Do you have confirmation of Paxton at the Australian end?
Just wondering if it was possible Ellen ran away with George Harding?
(I still don’t see a baptism)
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Ellen Elizabeth PAXTON, born 08 Jul 1849, Rutly, Hinckley, Leicester, England.
Ellen died in Launceston, Tasmania... 09 Jul 1939.
Marriage...not sure if it is accurate....19 Mar 1871, Hillingdon, Middlesex, England...unknown if it was under Reeves or Harding but Ellen is correct.
Ellen and George aka Reuben are my great grandparents.. the family were always under the impression we were Harding, but now we have been thrown a new name and confused us all.
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What does it Actually say on her death cert?
Do you have George’s death cert?
Were there other children born in Australia? Is there a useful birth cert for one of them?
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Her death cert states she died of Cerebral Thrombosis, my grandfather George (jnr) was born on 26 May 1887, Oatlands, Tasmania.
There are 8 children born to George and Ellen in Tasmania, William Jmaes was 2 years old when they left England.
Monday 10 July 1939
DEATHS:
HARDING - On July 9, 1939, at the residence of her son-in-law, Mr W. F. O'Connor, 27 Keane-Street, Launceston, Ellen Elizabeth, widow of the late George James Harding, aged 90 years. Born Ramsgate, England. Private interment Carr Villa Cemetery, Tuesday morning.
C. T. Finney, 16 Brisbane Street.
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So what does George juniors birth cert say re his parents?
I can only see one Ellen Paxton marriage on FreeBMD . Lichfield reg, 1870. NOT Middlesex. Something is wrong with the page number and it’s not letting me see other names :(
Apparently that groom is Charles GILBERT.
So no 1870 marriage.
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Tas BDM marriage
3 Aug 1898 Catholic Church Queenstown
HARDING William James, 28 yrs, miner, b. New Bevington
Father: George HARDING
Mother: Ellen Elizabeth HARDING
ATKINSON Catherine Mary Ann
GRO births
REEVES William James JanQ Medway Vol 02a page 445 mms. PAXTON
William James HARDING arrives 1872 with parents George HARDING, and Ellen Elizabeth PAXTON (this name from births TAS 1872+)
William James is son born to Ellen Elizabeth PAXTON....and REEVES father?
What do you know about Ellen Elizabeth PAXTON..........her age?
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Wow......that is the family, thank you so much....
Ellen would have been around 21 years of age when William James was born.
So it may be safe to say, Reuben and George are one and the same...but why change his name and ship to Tasmania?
All I need to do now is to find parents for Reuben Mark Reeves, I do know he had 2 sisters Phoebe and Sarah, have no idea where any of them were born.
Will keep searching ......thank you wivenhoe, your help is very much appreciate.
Regards
Cienna.
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Found the baptism, it’s on Ancestry. Methodist circuit baptism
William James, June 5 1870, Father Reuben Mark, labourer. At B.C. chapel, New Brompton. (So no wonder I couldn’t see it at St Marks)
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Thank you Mckha489, this is very helpful, we didn't have a proper date.
Must now find parents for Reuben Mark and some siblings beside the two we know of being his sisters..
Appreciate your help.
Kind Regards
Cienna.
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Sisters? Names? Other details?
Sorry just seen other post
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Sisters are Phoebe and Sarah...sorry no other info on them.
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I think I have the family in 1851
187
Piece: 1606
Folio: 96
Page Number: 45
Just trying to find it on Family Search to send you link.
Added link (he’s Reuben age 7 in this one)
Edited to give better link
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGRH-PL2
Older children including Reuben have mother with MMN BROOKS,
There is a younger brother (he’s in the wrong bit of the list on the form) named George........
Phoebe and youngest MMN PRICE
That Reuben seems to be an unmarried servant in 1871 (or he could be the one in the next post)
Link Changed to
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFD6-2Z2
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There’s also this Reuben
Edit, changed link https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGRH-F81
I don’t know how you are going to differentiate.
I feel you have information you haven’t told us. Why did you get onto the Reeves path In The first place?
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I don’t know how you are going to differentiate.
I feel you have information you haven’t told us. Why did you get onto the Reeves path In The first place?
I was contacted by a cousin, I was told our great grandfather was in fact Reuben Mark Reeves, I knew nothing until then and I never believed it.
He done the Ancestry DNA and a few Reeves matched him and it all went from there, he also said he had suspected it many months ago but done nothing until last week..
I checked my DNA results and found the same thing....a few Reeves connection....among others also related to them...be it distant, I have no other info, I wish I did I only found all this out on Thursday of last week.
Cienna.
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Reuben/George Ellen and William James’s ought to be somewhere for 1871 census. Have you found them?
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Ellen Elizabeth PAXTON, born 08 Jul 1849, Rutly, Hinckley, Leicester, England
Does not match with
Born Ramsgate, England. Private interment Carr Villa Cemetery, Tuesday morning.
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Thank you to every who has help with my research, happy to say I have what I need from a distant cousin, all the help is very much appreciated.
Thanks again.
Regards
Cienna :)
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Are you able to explain how it panned out?
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Yes, Mckha489 I can .......
My 2nd great grandfather was born Reuben Mark REEVES, after a family falling out he decided to immigrate to Tasmania, before doing so he changed his name to George HARDING...it must have been a really bad falling out to change his name.
I now have a lot of rellies helping me form England.....
Thank you for all your help, I really appreciate it.
Kind Regards
Cienna :)
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Hi there,
I'm a descendant of Rueben Reeves too and I think I can tell you why he may have gotten so mad and changed his name to George Harding.
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Hi TashR,Thank you for your message, if you can shed any light as to why Reuben changed his name I would like to know, I have been trying for many years to find out why to no avail.
Cheers
Shari.
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Well I found info on familysearch that says his mother Sarah Price had 3 children before she married William Reeves, the first of which died when she gave birth at the age of nine. I still have leads to follow but the info so far is matching up.
So far there are conflicting dates regarding the births of Sarah's pre marriage to William children and it also seems that they tried to pass them off as Williams when they most probably weren't.
Like I said I am still researching.
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Good to make contact with you, I live in Tasmania. You?
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My line from Reuben/George to me is Matilda Harding, Cecil Venn, Evelyn Venn/Nunn currently in her 80's, Kim Nunn/Riley early 60's- me Natasha Riley.
How about you?
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It seems she may have been born Sarah Bewes... And had children with her father or uncle of the same surname before she married William?
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Well!!!! what can one say on learning that kind of goings on? but...it did happen back then as much as it does today, sad as it is...not liking that kind of news but then again it's in the history if in fact it is correct.
Is there any name mentioned for her father and uncle?
Matilda HARDING was my dad's aunt, her brother George was his father.
You and I are 2nd cousins twice removed.
Thank you for the info, please pass on more if you learn anything.
I also live in Tasmania.
Shari
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Well I found info on familysearch that says his mother Sarah Price had 3 children before she married William Reeves, the first of which died when she gave birth at the age of nine. I still have leads to follow but the info so far is matching up.
So far there are conflicting dates regarding the births of Sarah's pre marriage to William children and it also seems that they tried to pass them off as Williams when they most probably weren't.
It seems she may have been born Sarah Bewes... And had children with her father or uncle of the same surname before she married William?
If this is what you are talking about then it is obviously a load of rubbish.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/L71V-YWW
That family lived in Northamptonshire and the parents of those children were William BUES/BEWES and Sarah FREEMAN who were married in Northamptonshire in 1820.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNPW-F77
Debra :)
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Different people.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/family/KZ5T-QS4
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Total confusion, one needs to sit down and go through it all it's all mind boggling.
I did have my doubts about it all.
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Different people.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/family/KZ5T-QS4
That doesn't explain this.
Well I found info on familysearch that says his mother Sarah Price had 3 children before she married William Reeves, the first of which died when she gave birth at the age of nine. I still have leads to follow but the info so far is matching up.
So far there are conflicting dates regarding the births of Sarah's pre marriage to William children and it also seems that they tried to pass them off as Williams when they most probably weren't.
It seems she may have been born Sarah Bewes... And had children with her father or uncle of the same surname before she married William?
Debra :)
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As I said, I am still researching. I have limited time at present to spend hours every day as this type of research requires. Nor should I be expected to lay every detail out for you here as it does get very confusing.
Stories and names get changed when there's scandal, lies get told; people and families are complicated and I don't believe all websites can be trusted to be true and correct beyond the shadow of a doubt.
However it does seem the the child Sarah Price gave birth to at 9 years old did go on to marry and have children.
You're welcome to have a read for yourself.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/about/KZ5T-QS4
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Nor should I be expected to lay every detail out for you here as it does get very confusing.
Yes you should, especially when you are making claims of incest. Sarah PRICE and Sarah FREEMAN are two completely different people and lived in different counties. Sarah FREEMAN and her husband William BEWES had more than three children and you will find them all living together in Islip through the censuses. Islip is in Northamptonshire, which is nowhere near Kent.
Debra :)
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👍🏼
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I don't expect you to lay every detail, all I asked for was the reason there was a name change nothing more.
I have all other info on this family....
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Shari I replied to your pm 👌🏼
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They briefly reverted to REEVES for the birth of Reuben Mark in 1876, but then used HARDING after that as far as I can see.
https://libraries.tas.gov.au/Digital/RGD33-1-54p080j2k
If Ellen was born in Leicestershire, the daughter of Mark PAXTON and Reuben was born in Bromley, the son of William REEVES then probably of most concern is that they were living apart in 1871 even though they had a child. Baby William is not with the PAXTON family and there is no marriage between Ellen and Reuben. It may have been something as simple as disapproval from Ellen's father even though she had turned 21 in 1870, so they just packed their bags and left.
Debra :)
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The Reuben Reeves that evidently changed his name to George James Harding that Shari and I are referring to was born in 1844.
Way too early for the folks you seem to be referring to.
As I said, complicated and confusing.
There were often many families with the same first and surnames, (after all they did often name their children directly after themselves, marry first cousins and impregnate younger female relatives, otherwise how else does a 9 year old get pregnant?) with places of residence that cross over despite distance, and details that don't always match up or make sense due to scandal and cover ups.
These are my ancestors that I am questioning regarding incest and so I do not feel a need to explain every detail to you when I have no idea who you are and how you are connected here, other than you initially jumped in to this thread mouthing off about a Sarah Freeman, who I was never referring to in the first place.
I'll thank you to please ask more questions of strangers before accusing their research of being complete rubbish.
👌🏼