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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: kmp789 on Wednesday 21 November 18 13:11 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone have access to Lair Owners for the above 2 churchyards ? I have the following ancestors buried there and would like to know if they are buried in a lair. If so who are they buried with.
Rutherglen
Ann Scott died 8/5/1857
Francis Scott died 4/4/1866
Cambuslang
Gavin Scott buried 13/10/1847
Elizabeth Scott ms Gib died 7/10/1855
Janet Scott buried 10/3/1821
John Gib buried 19/10/1803
Agnes Gib ms Smith buried 1/2/1825
Francis Gib buried 1793
Marion Gib buried 1746
John Gib buried 1748
Many thanks to anyone who might be able to help
Kim
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Hello Kim, I have a copy the Rutherglen Old Church Monumental Inscriptions published by the Glasgow and West of Scotland Family History society.
There are two mentions of Scott.
One is that they had Lair 721 - 725 but there are no inscriptions.
The other is for lairs 993 - 997.
I shall transcribe the inscription in case any of the names are known to you.
" Erected by ALLAN SCOTT jr. in memory of MARTHA STEPHENSON, his wife, who died 9th Oct 1865, aged 26 years. AGNES FREEBAIRN, his mother , died 30th July 1865 aged 58 years. AGNES M. SCOTT , his sister, died 18th August 1837 aged 15 months. ARCHIBALD SCOTT, his brother, died 6th Match 1853 aged 12 years. JANE SCOTT, his sister died 25th April 1858 , aged 15 years. ALLAN SCOTT, his grandfather, died 13th January 1863 aged 77 years . JANE LANG, his grandmother died 25th January 1863 aged 79 years. ALLAN SCOTT his son died in infancy 18th september 1868. JAMES A. STEVENSON, died 6th February 1874 aged 19 years. The above ALLAN SCOTT died 20th April 1878 , aged 45 years. His daughter MARTHA STEPHENSON SCOTT died 19th September 1943 aged 77 years. "
I'm afraid that's all Kim. No sign of any Gib name.
Good luck ,
Baird
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I have been looking for information of Pinkertons from Rutherglen. I am specifically looking for Francis Pinkerton born 1799 and Sarah Pinkerton ( married George Harper) b. c 1823. I have been unable to find death certificates for Francis and Sarah. I have death certificates for Francis’ brothers William and Hugh both died 1855 and the certificate says “burial in Rutherglen church yard”. I’m wondering how to get further information about burials in the Rutherglen church yard. Perhaps Francis and Sarah are buried there. Thank you.
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DD welcome to Rootschat! , is this the Pinkerton's who were nurserymen in Rutherglen & later moved to Hogganfield where they farmed rhubarb?
Skoosh.
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Pinkerton Lair Lists in Rutherglen Old Parish Churchyard 502-508 and 682-689.
Inscriptions associated with 502-508;
Lair Owner John Pinkerton
Inscription 191 J.P. : M.Mc 1817
Inscription 192;
The burial place of James Pinkerton , died 1822, aged 72 years. Mary McNair his wife , died 1817 aged 69. James Pinkerton dies 1854 aged 74 years. Ann Hamilton his wife died 1838 aged 57 years and their children Jean and Archibald who died in infancy. James Pinkerton died 1839 aged 34 years. Robert Pinkerton died 1848 aged 31 years. Jane Brown died 23rd July 1879 aged 60 years, wife of John Pinkerton, died 23rd February 1888 aged 74 years and their children James, James, Mary and Agnes who died in infancy.
Janet Pinkerton died 11th July 1883 aged 73.
There is also a stone for William Wallace who died Stonelaw May 1847 and his wife and his wife Mary Pinkerton died 16th November 1881 aged 72 and their children.
The family burying place of William Wallace Esq. Stonelaw Rutherglen. Erected 1908
Hope this helps,
Baird
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Skoosh...no, I don’t believe these are the same Pinkertons. James was a grocer, Francis was a miner as was Sarah’s husband.
Baird..Thank you, but the James Pinkerton that I am looking for was not married to Ann Hamilton. Do you know if there was common ground in the church yard for families that did not own a lair?
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Yes there appears to be common ground but no inscriptions shown for the lair numbers in those areas.
Baird
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Thank you.
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A prominent Rutherglen family, one of the Pinkerton's signed the Rutherglen protest to the Scottish Parliament against the 1707 Union. George Pinkerton, one of four Hogganfield brothers, was an RAF pilot & engaged a Heinkel in this article,
https://www.602squadronmuseum.org.uk/history/ww2.php
They're buried in Rutherglen, presumably the family mentioned here. Not a common name, was the Pinkerton of the Detective Agency off the Rutherglen Pinkerton's?
Skoosh.
DD, if you type "Pinkerton" in the Search-Box there are about 90 Pinkerton responses!
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Thank you for the info Skoosh. I have found no connection to the Pinkertons of the famous agency.
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Hi Baird,
Many thanks for the lookup, I so appreciate it
Kim
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I have met one of the Hogganfield Pinkerton's a few years ago, he claimed a connection to the Pinkerton of the Detective Agency, that Pinkerton came from the Gorbals which is just a couple of miles from Rutherglen. Could have no foundation though!
There are more than 300 Pinkerton references in the National Archives of Scotland site.
https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/search.aspx
Skoosh.
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My Great Grandfather (William Alexander Johnstone) was born in Rutherglen in 1842. He moved to Swansea, South Wales, but his father was called Samuel Johnstone and he was listed as deceased in William Alexander's marriage certificate in 1872. I have no idea who Samuel's wife was, and I haven't had much luck in tracing them either. Would it be possible to find out if there is a Samuel Johnstone buried in this graveyard prior to 1872 please?
Thank you in advance, Lisa :)
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Hello Lisa, I've looked through the book of monumental inscriptions for Rutherglen Old Churchyard and there is no mention of the name Johnston(e) at all.
Baird
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Hello Baird,
Thank you so much for looking, I really appreciate you taking the time. Would you know of any other churchyard they could be buried?
Many thanks,
Lisa :)
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Was there an occupation given for Samuel given on the 1872 certificate?
Baird
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Yes, on his son's marriage certificate dated 13th Sept 1872, he's listed as House Builder (deceased). So I know he had already passed away by that date, but I don't have any further clues as to his actual date of death.
Thanks, Lisa
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sorry Lisa I cant trace them in either the 1841 or 1851 census in Scotland and no sign of a death for Samuel either.
Baird
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Hi Baird,
Yes, I've not had any luck either. I have two brick walls in my research (Johnstone and Miller family), and both of them are in Scotland.
I really appreciate you looking though,
Many thanks, Lisa
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do you know Samuels wifes' name?
Baird
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Hi Lisa
What were the names of William Alexander's children, in order of birth if you have this? Any surnames used as middle names for his children?
Monica
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Hi Baird,
No, I don't, but he (my great grandfather/Samual's son) named his daughter Rosina so I've wondered whether this could possibly be his mother's name? Other than that, I have no further information. I've searched for a number of years to try and find Samual and his wife, but haven't been able to find out anything. I know that my great great grandfather (William Alexander Johnstone) was born in and came from Rutherglen because his son (William John Johnstone) named his own house Rutherglen because of the family connection to the place. My great grandfather came to Swansea and died here.
So - this is all the info I have:
Samuel Johnstone - died before 13th Sept 1872
Samuel's son was William Alexander Johnstone - born Rutherglen about 1841. He moved to Swansea, South Wales and died October 1906. He married Jane Tingle (1846 - 1921). Jane and William Alexander had two children, Rosina Jane Johnstone (Jul 1880 - 19/02/1959) and my great grandfather, William John Johnstone (22/03/1884 - Mar 1967). William John Johnstone had two children, my grandfather also named William Alexander Johnstone (1904 - 1969) who was my paternal grandfather, and Elsie May Johnstone (1912 - 1983).
Many thanks for your help!!!
Lisa :)
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Have you been able to find William before the 1881 census following his marriage?
Monica
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His age at death in 1906 of 70 years would give him a birth c. 1836?
Monica
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Hi Monica,
No, I haven't been able to find him (William Alexander Johnstone) any earlier than his marriage in 1872. His marriage certificate is where I found his father's name and occupation from, and he was listed as deceased at that time.
Now I've rechecked, ancestry threw up two possible death dates for him (WAJ), being either 1906 or 1920. But it's his father I'm trying to trace more than him. I know he came from Rutherglen, but apart from that, I can't find any trace of him or his father Samuel. I don't know if it's me, because I'm struggling with a maternal great grandfather who also came from Scotland. So I'm wondering whether I'm missing vital information because I'm not used to researching Scottish ancestry. My Welsh ancestry I've had much better luck!
Thanks for your help,
Lisa
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It is not your lack of experience Lisa with Scottish records, he really is hard to find anything on!
There is a good possible family for him, parents Samuel and Rosanna, but no William/Alexander for them. Family in England by 1851:
1851 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGPY-BC5
1861 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7TS-YY6
I think you have a subs to Ancestry. This is a family tree for this line www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/11788511/person/26134970313/facts
So, taking this group away, struggling so far to get any possible lead on William :-\
Mionica
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I think this is William, the year before his marriage, on the 1871 census in Neath, Glamorgan https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V512-QJS
His age would fit with the age at death in 1906.
Monica
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Thank you Monica, that's great. I'm also relived to hear I'm not the only one struggling to find him if I'm honest! Between him and my maternal great grandfather (also Scottish), they have nearly driven me nuts!!! But with the maternal one, I know he didn't want to be found and turned his back on his Scottish family to the point where he even lied about where in Scotland he was born! So in theory, I should have more luck with the Johnstone line!
Many thanks for your help, i'll take a look at the links you've put up.
Thanks, Lisa :)
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Hi Monica,
I've had a look at the last link you put up for the Neath census, but it says on there that he was married, but I know he didn't get married until 13 Sept 1872. Unless he was married previously, but it doesn't say widower. It could be him, or maybe not? What do you think?
Lisa
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This is the link to William Alexander Johnstone, son of Samuel, in my tree:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/14031170/person/18649663140/facts
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Certainly missed seeing wife on the next line on that census entry :P
He could have been married and wife died in time for him to remarry Jane in September 1872. Might be worth checking for a marriage and death for this wife. Initial S?
Added: Birth of daughter R S, aged 2 born Welshpool, Montgomeryshire would help with confirmation of wife's maiden name.
Monica
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That's brilliant, thanks Monica :)
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Possible marriage in Neath 1869 1st Qrt Vol 11a/pg 615
William JOHNS and Sarah Williams
That same quarter in Neath there is a birth for a RUTH:
Ruth JOHNSTON - mmm WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1869 M Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 567
So, wondering whether the marriage ref with just Johns is an error for William's surname. Also, whether the R S in 1871 could be Ruth born in Neath rather than Welshpool?
The 1871 census entry shows them as lodgers at a Williams household, may or may not be connected. Williams is hardly an uncommon name there.
Deaths I can only see one for a Sarah JOHNS in Neath (searching for all Glamorgan county). Aged 26 which could fit with the age of the S Johnson in 1871. Issue (why are there always issues) is that her death looks to have been registered in 4th Qrt 1872 - Vol 11a/page 420.
Trying to see if I can find a Ruth Johns* from 1881 census onwards...ADDED...no joy with that.
Monica