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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: JeannieR on Tuesday 20 November 18 23:44 GMT (UK)

Title: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: JeannieR on Tuesday 20 November 18 23:44 GMT (UK)
Hi There

I have to admit total defeat !!

I have the marriage of Eliza STRUGEON to Michael Culkin on 20th January 1878, but I cannot find any marriage for her parents, Robert Strudgeon (he died 5th December 1881 age 46 ) and Ann Dunbar, born c1841, I Have tried every variation of names I can think of.

It would also be nice if I can find their births too. To get back one generation would be super.....

In 1901 Anne was living with the Culkins, and also in 1911 at Carrower, Sallymount, Mayo.

Many Thanks

JeannieR
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 21 November 18 00:29 GMT (UK)
Where did Eliza and Michael marry?
When was Eliza born?
Did she have older siblings?
Religion?
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 09:14 GMT (UK)
Civil Reg  Marriage results for Michael Culkin from 1878 to 1878

No results found.


So....where did you find it?
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 09:20 GMT (UK)
 Birth, Marriage and Death results for Strugeon

No results found.

_____________________________



Party 1 Name   PATT CULKIN
Party 2 Name   ELIZABETH STRUDGEON
Date of Event   20 February 1879

None for a  Michael Culkin


No point in posting a Link to this as he is not your Michael.
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 21 November 18 09:46 GMT (UK)
I can only see the same one as Hallmark.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11060/8046229.pdf

Elizabeth’s father is Robert.
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 10:04 GMT (UK)
Wrong Name and Month so probably a coincidence!
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 21 November 18 10:08 GMT (UK)
I doubt it  ;)
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 21 November 18 10:09 GMT (UK)
Parish records too late for baptisms of Elizabeth and her husband

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0118
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 21 November 18 10:17 GMT (UK)
Wrong Name and Month so probably a coincidence!

Here is the parish record for Michael Culkin and Elizabeth - 20th February 1879
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632287#page/4/mode/1up

The witnesses are the same as civil record  -there is an  Elizabeth Strudgeon is a witness  :-\

Perhaps an error in civil record re name but not date
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 10:26 GMT (UK)
Yes there are 2 one made her mark and the other signed her name if I remember correctly
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 21 November 18 10:31 GMT (UK)
Jeannie,

Where do you have Anne’s maiden name as Dunbar?

There is a birth here for Anne Strogen, Carrower with parents Robert and Anne Hennigan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03592/2324020.pdf

There are other births with the same parents. Would this Robert be a brother to your Elizabeth?

Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 10:35 GMT (UK)
There is

Culkin   Elizabeth   48   Female

and

Strogen   Nancy   86   Female   Sister in Law   Roman Catholic   Co Mayo   -   Cannot read and write   -   Widow 

she is 38 years older than Elizabeth so how can she be a Sister in Law??

http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Sallymount/Corrower/701187/
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 10:37 GMT (UK)
Jeannie,

Where do you have Anne’s maiden name as Dunbar?

There is a birth here for Anne Strogen, Carrower with parents Robert and Anne Hennigan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03592/2324020.pdf

There are other births with the same parents. Would this Robert be a brother to your Elizabeth?


 ;D ;D  It's beginning to get confusing! 
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 21 November 18 10:42 GMT (UK)
The census form does say Mother in Law.

Confusing - yes  ;)

Here is a 1915 death for Anne Strogen 55yrs widow - informant Michael Calpin

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1915/05257/4457749.pdf
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: dathai on Wednesday 21 November 18 14:18 GMT (UK)
my personal opinion is that they are the family of Robert Strogen and Anne Henigan
Robert's death in 1881 gives Anne as informant underneath him is the death of Thomas age 26 most likely a son same informant and address
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06419/4843662.pdf

Anne is 60 in 1901 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Sallymount/Carrower/1573276/
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 21 November 18 16:24 GMT (UK)
I agree dathai that looks most likely.
However, Jeannie has Ann Dunbar.

I have seen a published tree for the family here but I have some queries.

Griffiths Valuation shows
Robert Strudgeon, Cartron, Attymass
https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/mayo/attymass.htm

Also this which is in the published tree with Ann Dunbar as mother)
Robert Strogen, Foxford, School,Street.
https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/mayo/toomore.htm

The address on Elizabeth’s marriage is Cartron.
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 16:36 GMT (UK)
https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland/armagh/loughgall/message-board/researching-ancestor-loughgall-abt-1795-toomore-co


Why Armagh??   ???
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 16:41 GMT (UK)
http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=208
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 16:43 GMT (UK)
"..... sister-in-law Kathleen Stogen (now Finnerty) still lives on their family homestead, her gg grandfather was Charles Strogen and his father was Thomas Strogen listed for 1834 Tithes...."


https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=2212&p=localities.britisles.ireland.may.general
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 16:49 GMT (UK)
Killeen Old Graveyard Headstones


http://goldenlangan.com/graves-kn/STROGEN,%20Bridget%201946,%20Patrick%201957,%20Charles%201990,%20KN.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-kn/STROGEN,%20Katie%202006,%20KN.JPG
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 16:51 GMT (UK)
Killeen Old Graveyard Headstones

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-kn/CULKIN,%20Annie%201930,%20Thomas%201972,%20(GAUGHAN)%20KN.JPG
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 17:06 GMT (UK)
Strogens still around.....


*** , he was born on the 17th of May 1965.  He married on the 4th of June 1988 K S Attymass.  They were married in St. Joseph’s church, Attymass by Fr. Lamb.  The witnesses to the marriage N F and M  (nee Strogen)     

 http://irlandes68.tripod.com/id13.html
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 21 November 18 17:07 GMT (UK)
Yes, but are there two families?
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 17:18 GMT (UK)
Well it's an unusual Surname and with so much confusion about names dates and no sources given I don't know....

Living descendants in area might know family history??
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 21 November 18 17:32 GMT (UK)
Best wait for Jeannie.
It is just the possibility of two Roberts and the Dunbar/Heneghan that I wonder about.
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 21 November 18 18:03 GMT (UK)
OK....will go to Barbados for a month!   ;D
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 21 November 18 18:24 GMT (UK)
OK....will go to Barbados for a month!   ;D

Well I’ll volunteer to go to Mayo  ;)
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: JeannieR on Thursday 22 November 18 22:32 GMT (UK)
WOW

What can I say. As Always Rootschat comes up trumps.

I am afraid you have all given me so much info etc. I cannot take it all in, so I am going to print it all off to study.

Here is what I am sure off.....

The 1901 and 1911 census' are correct for the Culkin family. I have traced them from their daughter Ellen, born 13/12/1896 and this is the date of birth she gave in Yorkshire on the 1939 Register (I am doing this for a Christmas gift, for her great great grandson, born in May )

I have Michael Culkin and Eliza Strogen's marriage 20/02/1878 from the rootsireland website It took place in the Parish of Attymass, Mayo.

Hallmark...

You ask where I got the surname Dunbar, for Anna, and I have to admit, it came from a family tree, built on A*******. I Always check this kind of information. After doing this for 4 days I realised that someone was very wrong in their research....and I did not know where to start again, my head was in a whirl.
Now ,thanks to everyone, I can get it together again

Many Many Thanks everyone.I will now look properly at your replies,and start again......

It is getting so close to Christmas now,and I do want to get this tree finished and printed.

JeannieR 
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 22 November 18 23:33 GMT (UK)

 

Hallmark...

You ask where I got the surname Dunbar, for Anna, and I have to admit, it came from a family tree, built on A*******. I Always check this kind of information. After doing this for 4 days I realised that someone was very wrong in their research....and I did not know where to start again, my head was in a whirl.
 
 

It is getting so close to Christmas now,and I do want to get this tree finished and printed.

JeannieR


 :o

Well my advice is to keep your tree Private if you have it online.... Stops others from taking your tree  and "adding" to it
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: JeannieR on Friday 23 November 18 00:58 GMT (UK)
Hallmark

I totally agree with you. I do have a very extensive tree, and it is public. People have added my tree to theirs, regardless. However, I have been contacted by quite a few people, who have turned out to be descendants of my great grandparents, and I have gleaned a lot from them, so it has worked really well for me. I have worked so hard at my research, in the early days I could not have even got of the ground without Rootschat. My parents divorced when I was 3 years old,and I never knew any grandparents, so I am very proud of what I have achieved. If I am not certain though,it do's not get added to my tree.

I am still working on everyone's input, for which I am very grateful. I THINK I have made a break through......

Many Thanks
JeannieR
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: JeannieR on Friday 23 November 18 01:35 GMT (UK)
Hallmark

Thank you again !!

The link you sent me of the gravestone of Annie Culkin , wife of Thomas, mentions the name of Pat and Ellen Gaughan of Keighley. It is their great, great, grandson I am doing this for. A very, very special baby. His parents will be thrilled, especially his dad.

Brilliant

Thank you

JeannieR
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Friday 23 November 18 08:47 GMT (UK)
Hallmark

Thank you again !!

The link you sent me of the gravestone of Annie Culkin , wife of Thomas, mentions the name of Pat and Ellen Gaughan of Keighley. It is their great, great, grandson I am doing this for. A very, very special baby. His parents will be thrilled, especially his dad.

Brilliant

Thank you

JeannieR


Credit goes to people who took photos and run Website!

I just posted a Link.
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: hallmark on Friday 23 November 18 08:49 GMT (UK)
Hallmark

I totally agree with you. I do have a very extensive tree, and it is public. People have added my tree to theirs, regardless. However, I have been contacted by quite a few people, who have turned out to be descendants of my great grandparents, and I have gleaned a lot from them, so it has worked really well for me. I have worked so hard at my research, in the early days I could not have even got of the ground without Rootschat. My parents divorced when I was 3 years old,and I never knew any grandparents, so I am very proud of what I have achieved. If I am not certain though,it do's not get added to my tree.

I am still working on everyone's input, for which I am very grateful. I THINK I have made a break through......

Many Thanks
JeannieR


You can make it Private but findable, which means others get Hints but tree can not be taken!
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: dathai on Friday 23 November 18 09:23 GMT (UK)
What do you think of these
John Strogen of Thomas Strogen and Mary Jordan of Boyhollagh 1876 note informant Catherine Strogen of Cartron  (parents marriage not found )
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03040/2114374.pdf

1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Attymass_East/Boyhollagh/1571006/

1911 married 37 yrs
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Attymass_East/Boyhollagh/698941/

Sarah Culkin to Michael Henry 1908 witness Catherine Strogen
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10011/5640944.pdf

Pension search 1917 in care of Michael Culkin
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/reels/c19/007246696/007246696_00582.pdf

she's not obvious on census
Title: Re: Strudgeon/ Strogen marriage to Ann Dunbar
Post by: Laurenstrogen on Monday 11 November 19 21:41 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

My name is Lauren Strogen, I'm 25 and I live in Ballina, Co. Mayo where all the Strogens are based (now and years ago).

I do not have any extra info that you cannot already find on irish census and record sites.
BUT
I've been researching my family tree for 6 years now. I've hit a complete dead end. There were so many brothers named Thomas, Charles, Robert who all had children with the names Thomas, Charles, Robert, etc. They also married women with the same names e.g. Mary, Ann.
This makes it near impossible to distinguish between the families and who married who etc.
If you would like to contact me and I can pass on any information that I do have. I know of Robert and Annie Dunbar and I am sure that I have information on them somewhere. I remember it took me days upon days to figure out the right Robert and it turns out certain records were wrong with their information.
I hope I can help, even though I am a year late 😂

Warm regards.