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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: SteveMincornwall on Monday 19 November 18 18:29 GMT (UK)

Title: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Monday 19 November 18 18:29 GMT (UK)
Hi and thank you for looking.
I have been tracing my family for a number of years but have really got stuck trying to find birth information for my maternal grandmother.
My grandmother was born  24th December 1894, I believe in Donegal. Her father was Patrick.
My grandmother met my grandfather (Frank Webb) who was in the English military during the trouble's . They left Ireland ‘under a cloud’ and married in Dorset March1922, she had three children, including my mother before passing away September 1946.
I would be extremely grateful to anyone who would be kind enough to point me in the direction of records of my late dear grandmother?
Kind Regards
Steve


Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: crisane on Monday 19 November 18 19:04 GMT (UK)
Do you have the 1911 census for her. This is a possible
 Carrickadawson,  Feddyglass
Patrick McCauley 56 widow Mason
Hugh McCauley 20 farm servant
Annie McCauley 16
Thomas W McCauley 15 farm servant
Samuel McCauley 12

All born Donegal
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: heywood on Monday 19 November 18 19:13 GMT (UK)
Hello and welcome

Here is that family in 1901 but Annie is Mary Anne. :-\

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Treantaghmucklagh/Drumatoland/1197106/

Heywood
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: crisane on Monday 19 November 18 19:17 GMT (UK)
This looks to be the same family in 1901 but Annie now appears to be Mary Ann which may be why a birth reg is not in the names of Annie Kathleen.
Drumatoland Treantaghmucklagh, Donegal
Patrick McCawley 45   Farm labourer
Mary Anne   45   
Jane   12   
Hugh   11   
Patrick9   
Mary Anne   6   
Thos William5   
Samuel 2   
All born Donegal   

Snap Heyward :)
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: heywood on Monday 19 November 18 19:18 GMT (UK)
Here is Mary Anne’s birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02216/1836553.pdf

24th May 1895 :-\
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Monday 19 November 18 20:03 GMT (UK)
My goodness, what a quick and wonderful response! Thank you so much, I have spent hours and hours looking for her.
Will be back for more and if I can help in any way please do not hesitate
Kind Regards
Steve
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: hallmark on Monday 19 November 18 20:49 GMT (UK)
C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCauley of Strabane  DISTRICT

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n25/

if you want to look at siblings etc

You can select Births etc and year range from list on left

those with 

Returns Quarter   
Returns Volume No   
Returns Page No   

don't have images yet!
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: heywood on Monday 19 November 18 20:52 GMT (UK)
I am a bit bothered about different name and date of birth but can’t see an alternative yet.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: heywood on Monday 19 November 18 21:01 GMT (UK)
Steve,

What is Patrick’s occupation on the marriage certificate?

Heywood
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Monday 19 November 18 21:44 GMT (UK)
Steve,

What is Patrick’s occupation on the marriage certificate?

Heywood
Hi Heywood
The certificate has him down as a tailor
Steve
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: heywood on Monday 19 November 18 21:51 GMT (UK)
That Patrick was a Thatcher, a Mason and a Farm Labourer on various records. - looking doubtful.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: hallmark on Monday 19 November 18 21:58 GMT (UK)


C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCauley of Strabane  DISTRICT

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n25/

if you want to look at siblings etc  for their Marriages see what they say their father was!
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Monday 19 November 18 22:20 GMT (UK)


C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCauley of Strabane  DISTRICT

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n25/

if you want to look at siblings etc  for their Marriages see what they say their father was!
My apologies, need to get my head around search facility. Late for me, so will resume tomorrow
Steve
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: crisane on Tuesday 20 November 18 00:28 GMT (UK)
There is an unnamed male child birth 8 Oct 1892 father Patrick McCauley, mother Mary Anne Moody. Patrick is a stone mason.

Just thought I would make a note of it.  :)

Jane's birth reg - stone mason
Samuel birth reg 1899 - mason

Mary Anne's birth reg has her mother's maiden name as Moody same as Jane's, Samuel and unknown as above even though Patrick is down as a Thatcher.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Tuesday 20 November 18 17:29 GMT (UK)
Do you know of any siblings or cousins etc who might have visited or sent letters etc to Annie?

I would be dubious of the Anne Mary - fathers name is right, and the county is right, but middle name is wrong and so is fathers occupation
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Tuesday 20 November 18 17:33 GMT (UK)
Another possibility

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Doochary/Derrynagriel/1176549/

But the fathers occupation doesn't match again
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 20 November 18 17:46 GMT (UK)
Even doing this search doesn't throw up any obvious contenders that I can see

.
.
.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Tuesday 20 November 18 17:49 GMT (UK)
Hallmark, I tried that search too, and a search for every Patrick McAuley  or Mc Cauley, for anything that could be a tailor.

Does the marriage certificate clearly say Tailor?

Someone else on ancestry has her as Kathleen Macauley, born Derry, but no sources
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Tuesday 20 November 18 18:24 GMT (UK)
Do you know of any siblings or cousins etc who might have visited or sent letters etc to Annie?

I would be dubious of the Anne Mary - fathers name is right, and the county is right, but middle name is wrong and so is fathers occupation
Many thanks for helping.
After Annie left to marry my grandfather, I don’t think she had any further
contact with her family. Her marriage certificate has her DOB as 24/12/94 and her father as Patrick and my family suggest she was from the Donegal area. Not a great deal of help, I know 😕
Steve

PS please don’t rely on the occupation as a tailor as this may be just the result of my poor research
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 20 November 18 19:07 GMT (UK)
C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCauley of Strabane  DISTRICT if she was indeed from there

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n25/

 

You can select Births Marriages Deaths etc and year range from list on left

those with

Returns Quarter   
Returns Volume No   
Returns Page No   

don't have images yet!


Her marriage certificate has her DOB as 24/12/94 and her father as Patrick which may or may not be true...
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 20 November 18 19:16 GMT (UK)
Also if she was born so late in year, it might have been registered until after new year
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: crisane on Tuesday 20 November 18 21:44 GMT (UK)
Just to eliminate this one and ignoring the registration place
Female M'Cauley
Date of Registration Dec 1/4 1894
Registration district -Dublin North
Vol 2 Page 482

Is she the Ellen Cawley born 22 Dec and baptised on the 28 Dec 1894 Dublin. Parents John Cawley and Eliza Cummins.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Wednesday 21 November 18 06:46 GMT (UK)
I have been attempting to tie down birth dates etc. and have found this record which seems to fit. Any advise on getting more info very welcome ?
Steve

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Feddyglass/Carrickadawson/506123/
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: crisane on Wednesday 21 November 18 07:34 GMT (UK)
Yes that is the 1911 census I posted (my first post) which matches with the 1901 census we posted where Annie is recorded as Mary Ann.
Quote
1901
This looks to be the same family in 1901 but Annie now appears to be Mary Ann which may be why a birth reg is not in the names of Annie Kathleen.
Drumatoland Treantaghmucklagh, Donegal
Patrick McCawley 45   Farm labourer
Mary Anne  45   
Jane  12   
Hugh  11   
Patrick 9   
Mary Anne 6
Thos William 5   
Samuel 2   
All born Donegal

The children all have the mother's maiden name Moody. So Mary Anne is age 6 in 1901 and Annie is age 16 in 1911. So either there was a set of twins and one died - (Mary Ann) and Annie Kathleen lived, but where is she in 1901? or Mary Ann is Annie Kathleen. 
Others will probaby have more cohesive thoughts. It is getting late here.  :)
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Thursday 22 November 18 12:55 GMT (UK)
C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCauley of Strabane  DISTRICT if she was indeed from there

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n25/

 

You can select Births Marriages Deaths etc and year range from list on left

those with

Returns Quarter   
Returns Volume No   
Returns Page No   

don't have images yet!


Her marriage certificate has her DOB as 24/12/94 and her father as Patrick which may or may not be true...
I have been digging further and Annie’s father was a coal merchant! I will continue looking through records.
Steve
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: dathai on Thursday 22 November 18 16:20 GMT (UK)
Do you have Frank Webb's service record to see where he was in 1920's
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Thursday 22 November 18 19:35 GMT (UK)
Do you have Frank Webb's service record to see where he was in 1920's
Not yet but I think I have his service number and will try and trace him
Steve
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: crisane on Thursday 22 November 18 19:55 GMT (UK)
Do you have Frank Webb's service record to see where he was in 1920's
Not yet but I think I have his service number and will try and trace him
Steve
If Frank Webb was still in the army in the 1920's his service record will still be held by the MoD.
You can apply for them but you will need his birth date, a copy of his death ceritificate and 30 quid.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Thursday 22 November 18 19:59 GMT (UK)
Do you have Frank Webb's service record to see where he was in 1920's
Not yet but I think I have his service number and will try and trace him
Steve
If Frank Webb was still in the army in the 1920's his service record will still be held by the MoD.
You can apply for them but you will need his birth date, a copy of his death ceritificate and 30 quid.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
Thanks, he was still in the forces in 1922 and I have a photo copy of his death certificate.
Steve
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: rathmore on Friday 23 November 18 15:31 GMT (UK)
a Annie McCauley and Frank Webb mentioned on find my past

wedding at Christchurch, Hampshire

http://www.findmypast.co.uk
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Friday 23 November 18 16:45 GMT (UK)
a Annie McCauley and Frank Webb mentioned on find my past

wedding at Christchurch, Hampshire

http://www.findmypast.co.uk
I am not a member of find my past but many thanks, I have their marriage certificate
Steve
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: shanreagh on Saturday 02 February 19 08:18 GMT (UK)
Do you know what her family called her?  (eg a great aunt was registered as Ann Jane and called Annie in the family, others have been Anne and called Nancy in the family etc)

How do you know her DoB was 24/12?

Would she have named any of her children with names that could be family names? By that I mean names that are not showing up as part of the names 'belonging' to her husband. 

Do you know her for religion?

Do you recall any mention of gt Aunts or Uncles

What is making you think it was Co Donegal that she came from? Family Stories? These can often contain useful information. 

Have searched the military file for Frank Webb. Often military had to get permission from CO to marry. You would also see where in ireland that he was posted.

NB I see that Crisane has suggested this.

Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Saturday 02 February 19 09:15 GMT (UK)
Do you know what her family called her?  (eg a great aunt was registered as Ann Jane and called Annie in the family, others have been Anne and called Nancy in the family etc)

How do you know her DoB was 24/12?

Would she have named any of her children with names that could be family names? By that I mean names that are not showing up as part of the names 'belonging' to her husband. 

Do you know her for religion?

Do you recall any mention of gt Aunts or Uncles

What is making you think it was Co Donegal that she came from? Family Stories? These can often contain useful information. 

Have searched the military file for Frank Webb. Often military had to get permission from CO to marry. You would also see where in ireland that he was posted.

NB I see that Crisane has suggested this.
Many thanks for your reply. Annie was a RC, as was my mother, her daughter. I have sent for my grandad (Frank) military records to see where he was in Ireland. As he was an officer there should be some info. Her DOB came from marriage and death certificates, so I am pretty sure it is correct. As for Donegal, I have searched records and Donegal fit with father and sibling names.
Once again, many thanks
Steve
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 03 February 19 00:25 GMT (UK)
Have you given us the father's and siblings' names - where have you obtained these from?

There are a couple of questions that also would be useful to know the answers to from my last post -
what did her family call her? Was she called Kathleen or Ann/e or Annie? If you have cousins or family friends from that side of the family it might be worth seeing what they called her.

Did the marriage certificate not have a year of birth.....just 24/12?

What were her children's names including full names - you can often get a helpful clue from these.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: heywood on Sunday 03 February 19 08:12 GMT (UK)
Marriage certificates don’t usually give a date of birth - just an age or ‘full’.
Was the date of birth written on the civil and/or church certificate?
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: heywood on Sunday 03 February 19 09:06 GMT (UK)
There is this family - not sure if they have been mentioned

1901 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Kilderry/Muff/1190219/

Catherine Anne McCauley 9yrs b Co Derry living in Donegal

Her birth ‘December Twenty two 1889’ Father Patrick (living in Glasgow)

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02453/1911739.pdf

Her brother Patrick’s birth describes father Patrick as a Coal Dealer.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02358/1881009.pdf

Sister Sarah 1899 -Father still in Glasgow Patrick is a Carter

Marriage of Patrick and Bridget
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10850/5961559.pdf

I can’t see the family in 1911.

There is a possible death for Robert Doherty in 1909 - informant granddaughter Cassie McCauley residence Culmore
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05470/4531053.pdf

Robert McCauley gives Culmore as residence on marriage and there is a Bridget McCauley death in 1906, Culmore with Cassie McCauley as informant.

I am thinking that Cassie is Catherine Anne  :-\ so Annie Kathleen may not be this one.

If this was Annie Kathleen, she would be a few years older than believed.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 03 February 19 21:37 GMT (UK)
Marriage certificates don’t usually give a date of birth - just an age or ‘full’.
Was the date of birth written on the civil and/or church certificate?

Yes I am wondering where the date of 24/12 came from?

Confirming that Cassie is a diminutive of Catherine.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: SteveMincornwall on Monday 04 February 19 08:09 GMT (UK)
Marriage certificates don’t usually give a date of birth - just an age or ‘full’.
Was the date of birth written on the civil and/or church certificate?

Yes I am wondering where the date of 24/12 came from?
Kathleen’s age is given on her marriage and death certificates which match with the day, month, year given on the 1939 registration (census) document.
Steve

Confirming that Cassie is a diminutive of Catherine.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: stiffy on Monday 04 February 19 08:45 GMT (UK)
Her birth date came from the (Hampshire) 1939 registration (Census) document and matches the age given on her marriage and death certificates.
Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: heywood on Monday 04 February 19 09:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Steve,

Yes I can see that re the age in 1939.
It has been mentioned though that it was on her marriage certificate - date not age.

I am not saying that this latest find is Annie.

However, it does happen that people alter their age, for example, if the woman is older than the man, it seemed to matter more in the past.

Are you a relative or the same Steve under another name?

Heywood

Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: stiffy on Monday 04 February 19 11:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Steve,

Yes I can see that re the age in 1939.
It has been mentioned though that it was on her marriage certificate - date not age.

I am not saying that this latest find is Annie.

However, it does happen that people alter their age, for example, if the woman is older than the man, it seemed to matter more in the past.

Are you a relative or the same Steve under another name?

Heywood

Hi same Steve
Just resurrected an old account on Rootschat as i am working away and didn't have login details. Her marriage certificate does indeed only have her age, my mistake. What is interesting is her father (deceased) occupation is down as coal merchant which ties in nicely with previous replies!
Steve
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: heywood on Monday 04 February 19 12:34 GMT (UK)
Yes it does on one certificate at least.
The birthdate is also similar apart from the year.
Really, you would have to see if Cassie marries etc so she could be discounted.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: shanreagh on Monday 04 February 19 22:14 GMT (UK)
Yes it does on one certificate at least.
The birthdate is also similar apart from the year.
Really, you would have to see if Cassie marries etc so she could be discounted.

Or work from dates in the Military file when that arrives.  It may have a place of birth or posting location rather than a speculative 'Donegal'.
Title: Re: Annie Kathleen McCauley
Post by: heywood on Monday 04 February 19 22:24 GMT (UK)
Yes, good point shanreagh.
Let’s hope it does  :)