RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: SteveMincornwall on Monday 19 November 18 18:29 GMT (UK)
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Hi and thank you for looking.
I have been tracing my family for a number of years but have really got stuck trying to find birth information for my maternal grandmother.
My grandmother was born 24th December 1894, I believe in Donegal. Her father was Patrick.
My grandmother met my grandfather (Frank Webb) who was in the English military during the trouble's . They left Ireland ‘under a cloud’ and married in Dorset March1922, she had three children, including my mother before passing away September 1946.
I would be extremely grateful to anyone who would be kind enough to point me in the direction of records of my late dear grandmother?
Kind Regards
Steve
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Do you have the 1911 census for her. This is a possible
Carrickadawson, Feddyglass
Patrick McCauley 56 widow Mason
Hugh McCauley 20 farm servant
Annie McCauley 16
Thomas W McCauley 15 farm servant
Samuel McCauley 12
All born Donegal
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Hello and welcome
Here is that family in 1901 but Annie is Mary Anne. :-\
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Treantaghmucklagh/Drumatoland/1197106/
Heywood
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This looks to be the same family in 1901 but Annie now appears to be Mary Ann which may be why a birth reg is not in the names of Annie Kathleen.
Drumatoland Treantaghmucklagh, Donegal
Patrick McCawley 45 Farm labourer
Mary Anne 45
Jane 12
Hugh 11
Patrick9
Mary Anne 6
Thos William5
Samuel 2
All born Donegal
Snap Heyward :)
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Here is Mary Anne’s birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02216/1836553.pdf
24th May 1895 :-\
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My goodness, what a quick and wonderful response! Thank you so much, I have spent hours and hours looking for her.
Will be back for more and if I can help in any way please do not hesitate
Kind Regards
Steve
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C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCauley of Strabane DISTRICT
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n25/
if you want to look at siblings etc
You can select Births etc and year range from list on left
those with
Returns Quarter
Returns Volume No
Returns Page No
don't have images yet!
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I am a bit bothered about different name and date of birth but can’t see an alternative yet.
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Steve,
What is Patrick’s occupation on the marriage certificate?
Heywood
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Steve,
What is Patrick’s occupation on the marriage certificate?
Heywood
Hi Heywood
The certificate has him down as a tailor
Steve
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That Patrick was a Thatcher, a Mason and a Farm Labourer on various records. - looking doubtful.
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C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCauley of Strabane DISTRICT
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n25/
if you want to look at siblings etc for their Marriages see what they say their father was!
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C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCauley of Strabane DISTRICT
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n25/
if you want to look at siblings etc for their Marriages see what they say their father was!
My apologies, need to get my head around search facility. Late for me, so will resume tomorrow
Steve
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There is an unnamed male child birth 8 Oct 1892 father Patrick McCauley, mother Mary Anne Moody. Patrick is a stone mason.
Just thought I would make a note of it. :)
Jane's birth reg - stone mason
Samuel birth reg 1899 - mason
Mary Anne's birth reg has her mother's maiden name as Moody same as Jane's, Samuel and unknown as above even though Patrick is down as a Thatcher.
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Do you know of any siblings or cousins etc who might have visited or sent letters etc to Annie?
I would be dubious of the Anne Mary - fathers name is right, and the county is right, but middle name is wrong and so is fathers occupation
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Another possibility
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Doochary/Derrynagriel/1176549/
But the fathers occupation doesn't match again
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Even doing this search doesn't throw up any obvious contenders that I can see
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Hallmark, I tried that search too, and a search for every Patrick McAuley or Mc Cauley, for anything that could be a tailor.
Does the marriage certificate clearly say Tailor?
Someone else on ancestry has her as Kathleen Macauley, born Derry, but no sources
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Do you know of any siblings or cousins etc who might have visited or sent letters etc to Annie?
I would be dubious of the Anne Mary - fathers name is right, and the county is right, but middle name is wrong and so is fathers occupation
Many thanks for helping.
After Annie left to marry my grandfather, I don’t think she had any further
contact with her family. Her marriage certificate has her DOB as 24/12/94 and her father as Patrick and my family suggest she was from the Donegal area. Not a great deal of help, I know 😕
Steve
PS please don’t rely on the occupation as a tailor as this may be just the result of my poor research
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C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCauley of Strabane DISTRICT if she was indeed from there
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n25/
You can select Births Marriages Deaths etc and year range from list on left
those with
Returns Quarter
Returns Volume No
Returns Page No
don't have images yet!
Her marriage certificate has her DOB as 24/12/94 and her father as Patrick which may or may not be true...
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Also if she was born so late in year, it might have been registered until after new year
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Just to eliminate this one and ignoring the registration place
Female M'Cauley
Date of Registration Dec 1/4 1894
Registration district -Dublin North
Vol 2 Page 482
Is she the Ellen Cawley born 22 Dec and baptised on the 28 Dec 1894 Dublin. Parents John Cawley and Eliza Cummins.
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I have been attempting to tie down birth dates etc. and have found this record which seems to fit. Any advise on getting more info very welcome ?
Steve
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Feddyglass/Carrickadawson/506123/
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Yes that is the 1911 census I posted (my first post) which matches with the 1901 census we posted where Annie is recorded as Mary Ann.
1901
This looks to be the same family in 1901 but Annie now appears to be Mary Ann which may be why a birth reg is not in the names of Annie Kathleen.
Drumatoland Treantaghmucklagh, Donegal
Patrick McCawley 45 Farm labourer
Mary Anne 45
Jane 12
Hugh 11
Patrick 9
Mary Anne 6
Thos William 5
Samuel 2
All born Donegal
The children all have the mother's maiden name Moody. So Mary Anne is age 6 in 1901 and Annie is age 16 in 1911. So either there was a set of twins and one died - (Mary Ann) and Annie Kathleen lived, but where is she in 1901? or Mary Ann is Annie Kathleen.
Others will probaby have more cohesive thoughts. It is getting late here. :)
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C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCauley of Strabane DISTRICT if she was indeed from there
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n25/
You can select Births Marriages Deaths etc and year range from list on left
those with
Returns Quarter
Returns Volume No
Returns Page No
don't have images yet!
Her marriage certificate has her DOB as 24/12/94 and her father as Patrick which may or may not be true...
I have been digging further and Annie’s father was a coal merchant! I will continue looking through records.
Steve
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Do you have Frank Webb's service record to see where he was in 1920's
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Do you have Frank Webb's service record to see where he was in 1920's
Not yet but I think I have his service number and will try and trace him
Steve
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Do you have Frank Webb's service record to see where he was in 1920's
Not yet but I think I have his service number and will try and trace him
Steve
If Frank Webb was still in the army in the 1920's his service record will still be held by the MoD.
You can apply for them but you will need his birth date, a copy of his death ceritificate and 30 quid.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
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Do you have Frank Webb's service record to see where he was in 1920's
Not yet but I think I have his service number and will try and trace him
Steve
If Frank Webb was still in the army in the 1920's his service record will still be held by the MoD.
You can apply for them but you will need his birth date, a copy of his death ceritificate and 30 quid.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
Thanks, he was still in the forces in 1922 and I have a photo copy of his death certificate.
Steve
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a Annie McCauley and Frank Webb mentioned on find my past
wedding at Christchurch, Hampshire
http://www.findmypast.co.uk
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a Annie McCauley and Frank Webb mentioned on find my past
wedding at Christchurch, Hampshire
http://www.findmypast.co.uk
I am not a member of find my past but many thanks, I have their marriage certificate
Steve
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Do you know what her family called her? (eg a great aunt was registered as Ann Jane and called Annie in the family, others have been Anne and called Nancy in the family etc)
How do you know her DoB was 24/12?
Would she have named any of her children with names that could be family names? By that I mean names that are not showing up as part of the names 'belonging' to her husband.
Do you know her for religion?
Do you recall any mention of gt Aunts or Uncles
What is making you think it was Co Donegal that she came from? Family Stories? These can often contain useful information.
Have searched the military file for Frank Webb. Often military had to get permission from CO to marry. You would also see where in ireland that he was posted.
NB I see that Crisane has suggested this.
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Do you know what her family called her? (eg a great aunt was registered as Ann Jane and called Annie in the family, others have been Anne and called Nancy in the family etc)
How do you know her DoB was 24/12?
Would she have named any of her children with names that could be family names? By that I mean names that are not showing up as part of the names 'belonging' to her husband.
Do you know her for religion?
Do you recall any mention of gt Aunts or Uncles
What is making you think it was Co Donegal that she came from? Family Stories? These can often contain useful information.
Have searched the military file for Frank Webb. Often military had to get permission from CO to marry. You would also see where in ireland that he was posted.
NB I see that Crisane has suggested this.
Many thanks for your reply. Annie was a RC, as was my mother, her daughter. I have sent for my grandad (Frank) military records to see where he was in Ireland. As he was an officer there should be some info. Her DOB came from marriage and death certificates, so I am pretty sure it is correct. As for Donegal, I have searched records and Donegal fit with father and sibling names.
Once again, many thanks
Steve
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Have you given us the father's and siblings' names - where have you obtained these from?
There are a couple of questions that also would be useful to know the answers to from my last post -
what did her family call her? Was she called Kathleen or Ann/e or Annie? If you have cousins or family friends from that side of the family it might be worth seeing what they called her.
Did the marriage certificate not have a year of birth.....just 24/12?
What were her children's names including full names - you can often get a helpful clue from these.
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Marriage certificates don’t usually give a date of birth - just an age or ‘full’.
Was the date of birth written on the civil and/or church certificate?
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There is this family - not sure if they have been mentioned
1901 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Kilderry/Muff/1190219/
Catherine Anne McCauley 9yrs b Co Derry living in Donegal
Her birth ‘December Twenty two 1889’ Father Patrick (living in Glasgow)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02453/1911739.pdf
Her brother Patrick’s birth describes father Patrick as a Coal Dealer.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02358/1881009.pdf
Sister Sarah 1899 -Father still in Glasgow Patrick is a Carter
Marriage of Patrick and Bridget
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10850/5961559.pdf
I can’t see the family in 1911.
There is a possible death for Robert Doherty in 1909 - informant granddaughter Cassie McCauley residence Culmore
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05470/4531053.pdf
Robert McCauley gives Culmore as residence on marriage and there is a Bridget McCauley death in 1906, Culmore with Cassie McCauley as informant.
I am thinking that Cassie is Catherine Anne :-\ so Annie Kathleen may not be this one.
If this was Annie Kathleen, she would be a few years older than believed.
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Marriage certificates don’t usually give a date of birth - just an age or ‘full’.
Was the date of birth written on the civil and/or church certificate?
Yes I am wondering where the date of 24/12 came from?
Confirming that Cassie is a diminutive of Catherine.
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Marriage certificates don’t usually give a date of birth - just an age or ‘full’.
Was the date of birth written on the civil and/or church certificate?
Yes I am wondering where the date of 24/12 came from?
Kathleen’s age is given on her marriage and death certificates which match with the day, month, year given on the 1939 registration (census) document.
Steve
Confirming that Cassie is a diminutive of Catherine.
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Her birth date came from the (Hampshire) 1939 registration (Census) document and matches the age given on her marriage and death certificates.
Thanks
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Yes I can see that re the age in 1939.
It has been mentioned though that it was on her marriage certificate - date not age.
I am not saying that this latest find is Annie.
However, it does happen that people alter their age, for example, if the woman is older than the man, it seemed to matter more in the past.
Are you a relative or the same Steve under another name?
Heywood
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Hi Steve,
Yes I can see that re the age in 1939.
It has been mentioned though that it was on her marriage certificate - date not age.
I am not saying that this latest find is Annie.
However, it does happen that people alter their age, for example, if the woman is older than the man, it seemed to matter more in the past.
Are you a relative or the same Steve under another name?
Heywood
Hi same Steve
Just resurrected an old account on Rootschat as i am working away and didn't have login details. Her marriage certificate does indeed only have her age, my mistake. What is interesting is her father (deceased) occupation is down as coal merchant which ties in nicely with previous replies!
Steve
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Yes it does on one certificate at least.
The birthdate is also similar apart from the year.
Really, you would have to see if Cassie marries etc so she could be discounted.
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Yes it does on one certificate at least.
The birthdate is also similar apart from the year.
Really, you would have to see if Cassie marries etc so she could be discounted.
Or work from dates in the Military file when that arrives. It may have a place of birth or posting location rather than a speculative 'Donegal'.
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Yes, good point shanreagh.
Let’s hope it does :)