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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: TeddyP on Saturday 10 November 18 10:17 GMT (UK)

Title: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: TeddyP on Saturday 10 November 18 10:17 GMT (UK)
My Great Aunt was Mary Matilda Collins, born 28/11/1894.  Her mother was also Mary Matilda Collins, born 1875, died 1910.

I am aware that Mary Matilda (1894) married a Raymond Alfred Perkins, born 1864 in July 1918 in Lambeth, but after the marriage I can find no trace of either person on electoral rolls, census, death records etc.  I also can't find any birth records for children that Matilda and Raymond may have had.

Can anybody else find them anywhere, I wonder whether they may have emigrated?

Thanks
Ted
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 10 November 18 10:51 GMT (UK)
There is this birth

Name:   Florence M Perkins
Registration Date:   1923
Registration district:   Lambeth
Inferred County:   London
Re-registration Year:   1923
Mother's Maiden Name:   Collins
Volume Number:   1d
Page Number:   521

But I can’t see her subsequently either

Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 10 November 18 11:03 GMT (UK)
Or, there is this death

Deaths Jun 1919 
Perkins    Mary    24    Lambeth    1d   174

Added, which might go with this one on the same qtr

Perkins    May    0    Lambeth    1d   353
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 10 November 18 11:26 GMT (UK)

I am aware that Mary Matilda (1894) married a Raymond Alfred Perkins, born 1864 in July 1918 in Lambeth, but after the marriage I can find no trace of either person on electoral rolls, census, death records etc.  I also can't find any birth records for children that Matilda and Raymond may have had.


The bridegroom in 1918 was plain Raymond Perkins, according to FreeBMD.  Where do you find his middle name Alfred?  Are you sure he was born in 1864, so some 30 yrs older than Mary Matilda?
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 10 November 18 11:51 GMT (UK)
Or, there is this death

Deaths Jun 1919 
Perkins    Mary    24    Lambeth    1d   174

Added, which might go with this one on the same qtr

Perkins    May    0    Lambeth    1d   353

 Mother’s maiden name for baby May Perkins is Hicks (also Jun qtr 1919 Lambeth).
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 10 November 18 12:04 GMT (UK)
In case it helps, Mary Matilda Collins was born 17 November 1894 (baptism record 28 Nov, Camberwell)
John
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 10 November 18 12:19 GMT (UK)
Is this her in 1911 Camberwell living with her Aunt /Uncle -William Pitt & Elizabeth Ann Collins
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW51-8V4

Pure speculation but perhaps her future husband also in Camberwell 1911 (Born 1887)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWR7-Z5B

Later information that has been posted discounts this
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: TeddyP on Saturday 10 November 18 12:27 GMT (UK)

I am aware that Mary Matilda (1894) married a Raymond Alfred Perkins, born 1864 in July 1918 in Lambeth, but after the marriage I can find no trace of either person on electoral rolls, census, death records etc.  I also can't find any birth records for children that Matilda and Raymond may have had.


The bridegroom in 1918 was plain Raymond Perkins, according to FreeBMD.  Where do you find his middle name Alfred?  Are you sure he was born in 1864, so some 30 yrs older than Mary Matilda?
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: TeddyP on Saturday 10 November 18 12:29 GMT (UK)
Is this her in 1911 Camberwell living with her Aunt /Uncle -William Pitt & Elizabeth Ann Collins
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW51-8V4

Pure speculation but perhaps her future husband also in Camberwell 1911 (Born 1887)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWR7-Z5B

Yes, I believe this is her.  Her mother died in 1910, so this may have caused her to move away from her step-father to her Aunt & Uncle's
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 10 November 18 12:35 GMT (UK)
OK, so based on the marriage register Raymond was indeed some 30 yrs older than his bride (and a bachelor), but didn’t have a middle name.

His deceased father was said to be Alfred Raymond Perkins, a licensed victualler.  Has the family been traced to check Raymond’s full birth details, so as to identify him reliably later on?

Witnesses: Elizabeth Medlicott, G Medlicott.
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 10 November 18 12:45 GMT (UK)
The witnesses are likely to be George Medlicott and his wife Elizabeth (nee Martyn), who lived at 65 Herne Hill Rd by 1919.  They would have been aged in their 60s at that time.

The marriage took place at St Saviour’s, Herne Hill Rd.
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 10 November 18 13:15 GMT (UK)
Birth
Sep 1859 Stow 4a 470
Perkins, Raymond Alfred
Mother - (dash)

Death
Dec 1933 Battersea 1d 486
Perkins, Raymond
age 74   

Raymond Perkins at 139 Stewarts Road SW8 on the electoral registers until 1933
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 10 November 18 13:21 GMT (UK)
Did the Battersea chap have an identifiable wife?  I can’t get back into the records - running very slowly today.
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 10 November 18 13:24 GMT (UK)
Hi
I've looked at most years, 1919-33, and I haven't seen one yet. Just Raymond.
John
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 10 November 18 13:25 GMT (UK)
I saw earlier that an online tree (which may or may not be linked to Ted) equated Raymond to an Alfred Perkins born & baptised in Shoreditch in 1864 to Alfred Perkins, a mariner, and Caroline (nee Young). 

I wasn’t sure how this link had been made, and there’s a possible death in Shoreditch Dec qtr 1865 of an Alfred Perkins aged 1.
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 10 November 18 13:26 GMT (UK)
If the 1923 daughter at reply #1 belongs to this couple, it’s puzzling that they can’t be found in Lambeth at least up until then.
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 10 November 18 13:28 GMT (UK)
Possible sightings of Raymond Perkins born Suffolk in Southwark in 1881 and 1901.
That F M Perkins birth in Lambeth in 1923 was also indexed under Collins (mmn Collins).
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: kd on Saturday 10 November 18 13:38 GMT (UK)
All i can see for Raymond Perkins is the Marriage and Workhouse records in Southwark before marriage
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: Annette7 on Sunday 11 November 18 00:26 GMT (UK)
It would appear pretty evident that Raymond Perkins was the one in and out of the workhouse in Southwark - his birth year varies between 1860 and 1865 (the latter in 1911 tying in with the age given when marrying in 1918).

I feel sure he is the Raymond Alfred Perkins birth Sept.1859 Stow, Suffolk.

Looks like he is living with a family named Petch in 1861 as 'Alfred', one of 2 described as 'nurse child':

Alfred Perkins   1    born Thurston, Suffolk (Thurston came under regn. district of Stow).
Edwin Perkins   1    born Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk.

Both births were recorded in Sept.qtr.1859 so definitely not from same mother although both illegitimate - Edwin registered as Edwin Petch Perkins so clearly some link with the family he was with.

Neither of these 2 appear to have been baptised and the only way to find out parentage of Raymond Alfred Perkins would be to purchase the birth certificate.

Looks like a child Raymond George Perkins, mmn Collins - birth 1919 Wandsworth.   He was buried 1/10/1919 Feltham, Middlesex aged 5 months - address 15 Tachbrook Road.

However, none of this is finding out what became of Mary Matilda although they clearly weren't together for long.

Annette   
Title: Re: Mary Matilda Collins
Post by: TeddyP on Sunday 11 November 18 10:34 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much everyone.  I'm really grateful for your assistance.

I have found a death for a Mary Matilda Collins 10/03/1942 in the US, but have no idea if this is likely to be the Mary I'm looking for.  Emigration may explain why I can't find any English records of her after her marriage.