RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Gerryk on Tuesday 06 November 18 11:55 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know anything about "Granny Hayden" who lived on the north side of Dublin in 1950s, off Clonliffe Road? Her husband was Edward, a Corporation employee.
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Given that her husband worked for the Corporation do you think there would be records for him?You could then find out more about her.
Have a try, if you have not already tried that route.
There was always a middle aged or elderly woman in most streets who could deliver babies, lay out the dead,give advice etc etc.
They had old wisdom and were much relied on.The title “granny” could mean
this is what she did.
Does the Street still exist ..?
Have you been able to look at census records,although it is a long time since the latest released census records people often lived in the same house for many many years.
Hope you make a breakthrough.
Viktoria.
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could it be Tolka Rd
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purely speculative at the moment
Mark Hayden married to Anne Byrne was a foreman corporation inspector around the Francis Street area before 1900 two of his sons John a Pavior and James a labourer worked in the corpo
Mark had a son Edward born 1882
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02750/2010548.pdf
Edward Married Alicia O'Brien a widow nee Christie 1912
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09922/5606876.pdf
Alicia's first marriage to Nicholas O'Brien 1897
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10454/5806826.pdf
an Edward Hayden died at 69 Tolka Rd 1949 age 67 he appears to have been a Pavior
157 here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1949/04536/4195989.pdf
Alica died 1950 same address
254 here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1950/04517/4189087.pdf
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Edward and sister Bridget staying with sister Annie Hinksman 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Fitzwilliam/Harcourt_Street/73174/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1905/10174/5701599.pdf
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Id suggest posting in some of the social media sites that would deal with the Ballybough/Fairview area, Clonliffe rd area is surrounded by a warren of streets such as Clonliffe ave, O'Sullivan Ave, Kings ave, Bayview ave, just to name a few.
The streets and avenues are filled with families who are long established in the area dating way back to the time the houses were constructed.
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Thank you all for that information. I was initially hesitant about opening up this thread, since it is such recent history. Granny Hayden may well have living relatives. If so, I would love to be in contact with them. However, I respect their privacy. I apologize for not being more specific in my earlier query - I really only wanted to contact relatives of Granny Hayden, if they were still around. I did not expect you to do so much background work. Thank you for that. She seems to have been a kind woman.
Granny Hayden( as she was known) is the key to another search.
That address - 69 Tolka Road - is indeed the one I am interested in. I am trying to trace a young boy who was taken in by Granny Hayden (and Edward) as a baby. I am not sure of the circumstances or the connection. However, I know he was not the only one she "took in".
He subsequently ended up in Artane Industrial School in 1945. His "stepfather" was listed as Edward Hayden, at 69 Tolka Road.
When he was released, he returned to the same house, but this time in the care of his "sister", an Alice McDermott, who lived there with her husband John. Both Granny Hayden and Edward had died in the meantime (as you proved in your researches). Alice, who I think lived in the house for some years with the Haydens, (having been also "taken in "), was no blood relative of the boy. But she took him in.
He left for Scotland, and then England shortly afterwards, having worked in Liptons. Indeed, family lore has it that Alice arrived back from a dance one night (so she must have been around 18) to be introduced to her "new baby brother". No reasons given. (I know that Granny Hayden was not Alice's real mother.)
This young boy was known as Oliver Anthony O'Neill. It is him I am trying to trace. He died some years ago. I am in touch with his family. However, given his background he never wanted to speak about his family of origin. He left all that behind. Now his children would dearly love to trace them.
He was born in Rose Farrell's maternity home (540 NCR) in late October 1936. However, I am not sure that the details of his parentage that were given by Rose Farrell were accurate. For one, they were supposedly a married couple, the father listed as Anthony O'Neill, a carpenter from Drumshambo. But I can't find any background to that fact that is convincing. I can find no marriage record either, for him and Mary (nee Martin) who was listed as the mother.
Also, his birth was not registered until 1951, when he was 15 years old, and the informant was the same Rose Farrell. He had been baptised in the Pro-Catherdral, a few weeks after his birth (which again was unusual), but, we don't yet have the actual baptismal certificate. The details on a transcript of the Cert, released by the archivist in Artane, were the same as those given in 1951.
Finally, another reason I am sceptical about the information, is that I am not sure how many married couples would have availed of the facilities of a maternity home.
And yet, his name stayed with him.
So, Dathai, your speculation is 100% accurate.
Are you able to throw any light on that maternity home, or the use of such homes in the 1930s/40s. And would you have any suggestions for further avenues of research?
As a footnote, I called to the house in Tolka Road recently, and Alice McDermott's son still lives there, on his own, but he is not in a position to be of much help. He remembers Tony O'Neill, ok, but he has no more details.
Many thanks
Gerry
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the only further info i can add are census and two known children that survived
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/North_Dock/Common_Street/1274701/
her husband died 1904 and is buried in Kilbarrick
https://buried.fingal.ie/wp-assets-bif/uploads/register-scans/Kilbarrack_1_041.jpg
her two children with their O'Brien grandmother and McDermott relatives
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Seville_Place/17569/
Alicia 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rathmines___Rathgar_East/Sandford_Terrace/44653/
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Thanks Dathai.
That connection with the McDermotts is illuminating. It could mean that the family connection (in laws of her first husband) is behind the McDermotts who later lived in Tolka Road, and therefore, that there could be a somewhat similar connection with the O'Neill's somewhere. It may mean that Granny Hayden was selective about who she took in. It wasn't just a free for all, but a house with connections/relatives.
I'll have a look at that when I get the time.
thanks
Gerry
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purely speculative at the moment
Mark Hayden married to Anne Byrne was a foreman corporation inspector around the Francis Street area before 1900 two of his sons John a Pavior and James a labourer worked in the corpo
Mark had a son Edward born 1882
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02750/2010548.pdf
Edward Married Alicia O'Brien a widow nee Christie 1912
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09922/5606876.pdf
Alicia's first marriage to Nicholas O'Brien 1897
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10454/5806826.pdf
an Edward Hayden died at 69 Tolka Rd 1949 age 67 he appears to have been a Pavior
157 here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1949/04536/4195989.pdf
Alica died 1950 same address
254 here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1950/04517/4189087.pdf
Hi dathai, I wonder if this the same Mark Hayden of Francis Street, a carpenter who died in 1896.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1896/05900/4674028.pdf
looks like he and Anne may have formerly been at 10 Bishop Street.
Interestingly, if its the same Mark Hayden, he's described as a labourer at his daughter Ellen's Birth, now at 51 Francis Street
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02886/2057725.pdf
and then as what looks like 'daughter of an oversees' when Ellen succumbs to Measles in 1882
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06414/4842287.pdf
wonder what that refers to?
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The death registration says daughter of an overseer (possibly in a factory).
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ah, thank you!
I'm interested in Mark and Anne Hayden mainly because I think they had a son Denis Hayden b.1868
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03442/2263899.pdf
I think he had the following siblings
FirstName Surname Born Died Address
Patrick Hayden 1866 ? 170 Townsend Street
Denis Hayden 1868 ? 10 Bishop Street
James Hayden 1869 ? 10 Bishop Street
Mark Hayden 1871 1874 17 New Street
Bridget Hayden 1877 ? 51 Francis Street
Mark Hayden 1878 1878 22 Francis Street
Ellen Hayden 1880 1882 51 Francis Street
Edward Hayden 1882 ? 51 Francis Street
I think Denis married before the turn of the century but I can't find a marraige record and it may be that the following is a record of a child
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a110550084936?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3Dmary%2Bteresa%26namel%3Dhayden%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch
Denis was in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers stationed to Quetta India between 1887 and 1894. He was discharged from the reserves in 1899 and ended up in Mounjoy for assault in 1904 and later he was in the workhouse in 1907. But I can't find a record of him or his 'family' after that.
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Daughter of unnamed born 18 Aug.1898 at Rotunda Hospital to Denis Hayden & Mary Smith-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02074/1791810.pdf
Rotunda Hospital birth registrations often didn't list a Christian name for children but in this case birthdate, residence and parents match the baptismal record for Mary Teresa.
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This looks like Denis & Mary Hayden in 1901-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Golden_Lane/1341161/
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Thats terrific. thank you so much.
if this is the same Denis Hayden born to Mark and Anne in 1868 the age in the 1901 census is slightly out but maybe not significantly?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03442/2263899.pdf
I can't be certain its the same Denis Hayden but it is compelling. Now to find what happened to him and his Marys after 1907. I reckon after coming home from India he was labouring in Drumcondra building Millmount Ave between 1890 and 1905 when Thomas O'Connell was developing that site.
My search has all been triggered by this scratching on a brick i accidentally discovered down a lane off Millmount Ave in Drumcondra. Its taken me down a rabbit hole!
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There is a Denis Hayden, (father Mark Hayden 51 Francis St.), who served in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers from 1887.
The placename QUETTA appears on his record.
PM me an email address and I will forward you the record, if you don't have it already.