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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 12:52 GMT (UK)

Title: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 12:52 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

I'm currently searching through records that are new to me, and mostly not available via my full Ancestry membership. I'm looking at the Coghlans in Chile, from 1880s to present day (as well as links to Birmingham, Alabama much later on).

Details I have are:

Edward Stuart Coghlan (presume born Ireland, also lived in London, moved to Chile in 1880s).
m. Mary Chessman (whose family was English).

Their son was -> Martiniano Earl Harold Coghlan Chessman born 21 April 1902 in Santiago, Chile.
m. Olga Cerda born circa 1905 in Santiago (I think, struggling to find her).

Their son was -> Harold Cecil Coghlan Cerda, born 8 September 1931 in Santiago.

I'm trying to find more details of the Coghlans in Chile, as well as Edward Stuart before the move to Chile in the 1880s. I know Irish records around that time are pretty bad/non-existent  :(

Can anyone point me in the right direction for Chile records? I've found some via FamilySearch but now stuck and at the limit of my current knowledge/skills. I've also searched this forum and can't find anything relevant.

Thank you! :)

Jenny.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 12:55 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

I'm currently searching through records that are new to me, and mostly not available via my full Ancestry membership. I'm looking at the Coghlans in Chile, from 1880s to present day (as well as links to Birmingham, Alabama much later on).

Details I have are:

Edward Stuart Coghlan  (presume born Ireland, also lived in London, moved to Chile in 1880s).
m. Mary Chessman (whose family was English).

Their son was ->  ]Martiniano Earl Harold Coghlan Chessman  born 21 April 1902 in Santiago, Chile.
m. Olga Cerda born circa 1905 in Santiago (I think, struggling to find her).

Their son was -> Harold Cecil Coghlan Cerda , born 8 September 1931 in Santiago.

I'm trying to find more details of the Coghlans in Chile, as well as Edward Stuart before the move to Chile in the 1880s. I know Irish records around that time are pretty bad/non-existent  :(

Can anyone point me in the right direction for Chile records? I've found some via FamilySearch but now stuck and at the limit of my current knowledge/skills. I've also searched this forum and can't find anything relevant.

Thank you! :)

Jenny.

Utter rubbish!!
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 12:56 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the constructive comment, I guess?

http://www.myirishconnections.com/irishancestry.htm
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 12:59 GMT (UK)
That rubbish makes one give up before they start!
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 12:59 GMT (UK)
In 1922, the Public Record Office in Dublin was burned and almost all of the Prerogative and Diocesan Wills, marriage records, census records and other classes of records of genealogical interest were destroyed or badly injured. Some valuable collections of records in the fireproof strongroom were saved. These included the Lodge Manuscripts, which consist of a series of volumes from the Patent Rolls of Henry VII, James I, Charles I and Charles II, abstracts of the Catholic Convert Rolls, being alphabetical lists of Catholics who renounced their church (usually temporarily) to avoid persecution, save their property, or to hold office, etc.

There are two lists of converts, c. 1703-1772, 1709-1773; and one list, 1662-1737, of Protestants who, upon coming to Ireland, took the Oath of Allegiance.

One of the most valuable collections acquired, which for the genealogist, repaired the loss of the Prerogative Wills, is the great collection of 241 volumes of the Betham Genealogical Abstracts.

After the fire, appeals were made throughout Ireland, England, Scotland, and America, for all who had copied the records during the past 53 years, to send their copies or transcripts, abstracts, or notes, to replace the burned records.


It was known that a large number of original records (wills, marriage records, parish registers, etc.) had never been sent to this office and these or copies were requested.

The appeals brought tremendous response. Legal (solicitors') offices, governmental, historical and genealogical repositories in Ireland and abroad sent original records, transcripts, abstracts, and notes from the burned records, as gifts or on loan for copying.

Genealogical collections representing the life work of great genealogists such as Betham, Crossle, Groves, Sadleir, etc., were given or sold to this office.

Individuals by the hundreds sent collections of family documents covering several generations.

Several hundred parish registers of baptism, marriage and burial, either original or transcripts, were in local custody at the time of the fire, and so were available.


The card index of testamentary documents is very extensive; it indexes many thousands of wills, duplicates and official plain copies of wills, grants of administrations, and original unproved wills never lodged for probate, which became too numerous after 1936 any longer to index in the Reports.

Without writing off the National Library you could check these "non-existing, burnt Wills" that exist, for example.



A lot of stuff is not online and even the gloom and doom of "The Fire" destroying everything and the "Boo Hoo" that ALL WILLS WERE BURNT WE ARE DOOMED that gets posted makes people not look for them!
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:01 GMT (UK)
Edward Stuart Coghlan (presume born Ireland, also lived in London, moved to Chile in 1880s).
m. Mary Chessman...


Born When?  Parents?

You are presuming Ireland....  Why?
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 13:01 GMT (UK)
Sorry I'm not sure what your point is, except to criticise me for not being able to travel to Ireland and look through the civil/parish records that exist in place of those destroyed by fire? Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:04 GMT (UK)
No.

You know Irish records around that time are pretty bad/non-existent   from reading that garbage!!

There is an avalanche of records online, free, Civil Reg, R.C Church Registers and a lot more!


 https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line

Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 13:05 GMT (UK)
Oooookay, I'm not sure what I did to offend you but this, indeed, escalated quickly.

Please feel free to ignore this thread if your only response is to be so critical. It's unnecessary. I'm genuine and asking for guidance. If you don't have it, that's fine, no problem.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:07 GMT (UK)
No... I'm trying to tell you that there is an avalanche of records online, free, Civil Reg, R.C Church Registers and a lot more!
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 13:08 GMT (UK)
No... I'm trying to tell you that there is an avalanche of records online, free, Civil Reg, R.C Church Registers and a lot more!

Maybe consider phrasing it that way rather than "utter rubbish" and a bunch of exclamation marks?
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:09 GMT (UK)
What is on  http://www.myirishconnections.com/irishancestry.htm

is utter rubbish!
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:10 GMT (UK)
Edward Stuart Coghlan (presume born Ireland, also lived in London, moved to Chile in 1880s).
m. Mary Chessman...


Born When?  Parents?

You are presuming Ireland....  Why?
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 13:12 GMT (UK)
I don't know parents or birth date. Hence my trouble.

Presuming Ireland as the family believe that to be correct.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:13 GMT (UK)
Civil Reg Birth results for Edward Coghlan from 1864 to 1875 

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mz3/

but how will you know without Parent's names?
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 13:14 GMT (UK)
Civil Reg Birth results for Edward Coghlan from 1864 to 1875 

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mz3/

but how will you know without Parent's names?

Hence my trouble...
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:15 GMT (UK)
Civil Reg Birth results for Edward Coghlan from 1864 to 1875 

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mz3/

but how will you know without Parent's names?


Were there siblings?

Hence my trouble...
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:16 GMT (UK)
Were there siblings?
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 13:17 GMT (UK)
I only know the information I've put into my original post. I don't know anything more right now.

I have hit a brick wall in Chile primarily. Ireland also, for the reasons you've picked up on already (lack of definite birth year and parents' names).
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:22 GMT (UK)
I only know the information I've put into my original post. I don't know anything more right now.

I have hit a brick wall in Chile primarily. Ireland also, for the reasons you've picked up on already (lack of definite birth year and parents' names).


You can try looking through the Births I posted to see if there is one with Edward Stuart  on the Cert Image.

It is unfair to you that these sites give the impression that there are very few records, when the opposite is the case!

My reaction is to what was on that site, not you!  Sorry. 
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 13:23 GMT (UK)
I only know the information I've put into my original post. I don't know anything more right now.

I have hit a brick wall in Chile primarily. Ireland also, for the reasons you've picked up on already (lack of definite birth year and parents' names).


You can try looking through the Births I posted to see if there is one with Edward Stuart  on the Cert Image.

It is unfair to you that these sites give the impression that there are very few records, when the opposite is the case!

My reaction is to what was on that site, not you!  Sorry.

Okay, thank you, I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:30 GMT (UK)
All the R.C. Church Registers are also online, free too.

But with no location you have nothing to go on!


Some Church of Ireland are online free too, with the rest in the pipeline!
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 13:31 GMT (UK)
Forgot RC link    https://registers.nli.ie/
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: Erato on Monday 05 November 18 13:35 GMT (UK)
I'm not sure I want to get into this rather unpleasant exchange but questions about Chilean records have come up before and a RootsChat member with experience in Chile was able to help out.  Maybe you can get in touch with him.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=767361.msg6195401#msg6195401
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 13:41 GMT (UK)
I'm not sure I want to get into this rather unpleasant exchange but questions about Chilean records have come up before and a RootsChat member with experience in Chile was able to help out.  Maybe you can get in touch with him.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=767361.msg6195401#msg6195401

Thanks, I'll check this out.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 05 November 18 14:53 GMT (UK)
There were children born in UK:  - Edith Veronica Coghlan, Southampton 1891; Cedric Stuart Coghlan, Pancras 1893; Marmaduke Alban Coghlen, Holborn 1895. All mmn Chessman.

Online sources name other children born in Chile: 
http://www.genealogiachilenaenred.cl/gcr/IndividualPage.aspx?Id=I50997

This tree has a photo https://www.geni.com/people/Edward-Coghlan/6000000024569975026

The passenger list of the Orellana has them leaving for Valparaiso on 5 December 1895:
Stuart Coghlan, 35, farmer, Irish,
Marrian 24 wife
Joan 15
Veronica 4
Cedric 2
Marmaduke 3 months

All children listed as Irish
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 14:58 GMT (UK)
This is really helpful, thank you!
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 05 November 18 14:59 GMT (UK)
Cedric was baptised at St Mary Bryanston Square 21/1/1894 parents Stuart and Marian Larell (?) Coghlan. Occupation pharmaceutist.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 05 November 18 15:01 GMT (UK)
Marriage in Southampton, Q2 1891

Isaac Steward Coghlan and Marian Rebecca L Chessman
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 15:04 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for this.

It seems they changed their names rather a bit. Once they were in Chile I think they changed to Eduardo Cohlan and María Chessman de Cohlan, as far as I can tell. I wonder what they were moving away from?
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 05 November 18 15:05 GMT (UK)
Isaac Stuart Coghlan ( birth registered as Isaac Stewart Coghlan) baptised at Portsea St Mary, 8th November 1857. Son of John ( a Royal Navy gunner) and Eliza.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 15:11 GMT (UK)
If the passenger list of the Orellana has them leaving for Valparaiso on 5 December 1895:
Stuart Coghlan, 35, farmer, Irish,   is correct then you'd be looking at Church Records, Civil Reg didn't start until 1864
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 05 November 18 15:14 GMT (UK)
I don't think he was Irish. It looks like he was born in the Portsmouth area.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 15:32 GMT (UK)
I don't think he was Irish. It looks like he was born in the Portsmouth area.

Interesting. The family seems to think he was from Ireland but records show him as English. The notes for his daughter's birth on the Chile genealogy site say "Legitimate daughter of Edward Stewart Coghlan, and Mary Chessman, English. Cohglan, is a lineage of Irish origin."

Maybe somewhere down the line!
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 15:36 GMT (UK)
Is Isaac and Edward the same person?
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 05 November 18 15:39 GMT (UK)
Quote
Is Isaac and Edward the same person?

Yes I reckon so. There's only one Coghlan/Chessman marriage and that is Isaac Steward Coghlan.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 05 November 18 15:47 GMT (UK)
In the 1891 census Marian L Chessman, 20, born Devonport, is a boarder in Lugley Street, Newport, Isle of Wight. She works in a music shop. Stuart Coghlan 33, born Portsmouth, is a boarder in St Thomas Square, Newport. He's a musical instrument commission agent.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 15:50 GMT (UK)
Irish Civil Reg  Birth results for Marmaduke Coghlan from 1895 to 1895 No results found.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: Maggsie on Monday 05 November 18 15:53 GMT (UK)
Hi, Boy oh Hallmark, why don't you SHOUT, get your head out of your PC.
The question was asked, help is needed not you being so rude.

There is an Olga Coghlan,  died in Staffordshire in 1975. b 1916c
There is also an Edwin Coghlan, Chilean, immigration year ….to New York 1953.

Maggsie
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 15:54 GMT (UK)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp


,
,,
,
,
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 15:57 GMT (UK)
Hi, Boy oh Hallmark, why don't you SHOUT, get your head out of your PC.
The question was asked, help is needed not you being so rude.

There is an Olga Coghlan,  died in Staffordshire in 1975. b 1916c
There is also an Edwin Coghlan, Chilean, immigration year ….to New York 1953.

Maggsie

Thank you!!
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Monday 05 November 18 15:57 GMT (UK)
In the 1891 census Marian L Chessman, 20, born Devonport, is a boarder in Lugley Street, Newport, Isle of Wight. She works in a music shop. Stuart Coghlan 33, born Portsmouth, is a boarder in St Thomas Square, Newport. He's a musical instrument commission agent.

Thank you for this! Such a nice little story there, I imagine! :)
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 05 November 18 15:59 GMT (UK)
Quote
Irish Civil Reg  Birth results for Marmaduke Coghlan from 1895 to 1895 No results found.

Marmaduke was born in London in 1895, as I have already posted. He came back in 1915 to serve in the RAMC (he was a chemist by profession) and returned to Valparaiso in 1919.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: hallmark on Monday 05 November 18 16:00 GMT (UK)
Hi, Boy oh Hallmark, why don't you SHOUT, get your head out of your PC.
The question was asked, help is needed not you being so rude.

There is an Olga Coghlan,  died in Staffordshire in 1975. b 1916c
There is also an Edwin Coghlan, Chilean, immigration year ….to New York 1953.

Maggsie


See Reply #19
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 05 November 18 16:51 GMT (UK)
Marriage in Santiago 27/12/1925:  Stella Esperanza Coghlan, 23, and Alfred Ernest Merrikin, 49, a merchant. Stella's father is Edward Stuart Coghlan, a Professor of English.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 06 November 18 11:00 GMT (UK)
When Marmaduke landed in the US on his way back to Chile in 1919, he named his nearest relative in the UK as Mrs M Coghlan, 35 Frances Road, Windsor
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TK-NV2Z?i=1524&cc=1368704
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: JennyMarieGradwell on Tuesday 06 November 18 11:03 GMT (UK)
When Marmaduke landed in the US on his way back to Chile in 1919, he named his nearest relative in the UK as Mrs M Coghlan, 35 Frances Road, Windsor
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TK-NV2Z?i=1524&cc=1368704

Thank you so much for all your help! I'm building quite a picture now. Marmaduke had a particularly eventful life, also his Aunt, Fanny.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: dublin1850 on Wednesday 07 November 18 09:48 GMT (UK)
I got quite a bit of help from the Chilean embassy here (Dublin) when researching a family member who had died there in Valparaiso in 1906. A very kind lady got me a death cert and a burial location for a small fee. I don't think it was an official service they offer or anything, but the Chilean embassy in the UK may be able to put you in touch with someone who can help.
Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: jorejim on Saturday 17 November 18 23:07 GMT (UK)
Hello
I found Carlos Coghlan Signing a loan in Chile 1934, so I presume he was born just after the 1900´s
Then also there are records of Harold Cogham Chessmann from 1935
There is also Edwing Coghlan born in Chile 1926 who has different entries in the Inmmigration service in USA.
In 1965, died Jorge Stuart Coghlan Alister born in 1916. His burial was paid by Tomas Coghlan and I presume he was buried at the Coghlan Chessman mausoleum in Santiago, Chile
sites to check
www.archivonacional.cl
familysearch.org

Title: Re: Coghlans in Chile?
Post by: jorejim on Saturday 17 November 18 23:12 GMT (UK)
Hola again
just found the following site
http://www.genealogiachilenaenred.cl/gcr/IndividualPage.aspx?Id=I50997
I believe this will help you a lot, as it shows the descendants of Edward Stuart Coghlan, that were born in Chile