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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Mira on Friday 26 October 18 05:55 BST (UK)
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Died at 105 Underwood Street, Paddington,Sydney,Australia on 11 January 1901 (I have death cert, morgue records). Married 31 July 1873 in Paddington to Mary Ann Elizabeth Ham (cannot find marriage certificate but this is mentioned on Florence's birth cert). Eldest child of 10, Florence Rose Glencora Smith, born 25 March 1895 at 38 Hargrave Street Paddington. First child Mary Ann Elizabeth born 6 May 1874.
Death certificate says he has been in NSW 27 years ie arrived c. 1874 and that he was born in London. Listed as a labourer on daughter's birth certificate.
I can't find immigration records nor any records in London as there are so many George Smiths.
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Died at 105 Underwood Street, Paddington,Sydney,Australia on 11 January 1901 (I have death cert, morgue records). Married 31 July 1873 in Paddington to Mary Ann Elizabeth Ham (cannot find marriage certificate but this is mentioned on Florence's birth cert).
Eldest child of 10, Florence Rose Glencora Smith, born 25 March 1895 at 38 Hargrave Street Paddington. First child Mary Ann Elizabeth born 6 May 1874.
Death certificate says he has been in NSW 27 years ie arrived c. 1874 and that he was born in London. Listed as a labourer on daughter's birth certificate.
I can't find immigration records nor any records in London as there are so many George Smiths.
Welcome to rootschat
You don't tell us what year he was possibly born.
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Is this your George Francis Smith?
George Francis Smith
Age: 58
Birth Place England
Death 11 Jan 1901 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Kay
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This is a possibility for marriage as same date as you have stated:
767/1873 SMITH George Richard to HANE Mary Ann SYDNEY
Jamjar
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Is this your George Francis Smith?
George Francis Smith
Age: 58
Birth Place England
Death 11 Jan 1901 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Kay
Wife is Mary Ann:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article14370063
They did have children Charles and Ethel, also.
Yes he was 58, second column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article14454014
Jamjar
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Is this your George Francis Smith?
George Francis Smith
Age: 58
Birth Place England
Death 11 Jan 1901 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
From the other post..
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/240140482
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Thank you all. All the people who asked if the TROVE articles refer to my George Francis Smith are correct. Going by his death cert he was born about 1842 as he was 58 years old when he died: apologies for omitting that.
Thank you a million times to Jamjar for the marriage cert number. I have tried every combination of names I could think of to find this on the NSW BDM. I'm sure that's the right one as someone else out in genealogy land has George in their tree as George Richard. I'll order it tonight.
Anyone have any ideas about how and when he came to Sydney. I have Mary Ann Ham's immigration details. She came in January 1873 and they got married in July.
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Do Australian marriage certificates for 1873 give any information on parents as that may help locate GFS
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:)
I have just posted on the other thread, suggesting an official transcription of the NSW BDMs 1873 marriage may well have the info about the parents of both the bride and the groom, as well as the details about the origins of the bride and groom... ;D
There can be elusive blanks on NSW marriages for that era, but most of the Sydney metropolitan BDM districts marriages for that era were fully recognised prior to WWI. :)
ADD
:) Welcome to RChat :) :) :)
See Jamjar's posts for list of the births ... :) :)
If you order the official transcription of the birth cert for youngest, you should get all the info about all the older siblings, plus info about both the parents (where born, then age, where married etc).
If you order the official transcription of the marriage that Jamjar found as well, then hopefully it will have information about not just the bride and groom, but also their origins, parents etc... It should also have notations showing it has been reconciled by NSW BDM with the church register/s as it was a marriage within the Sydney BDM district. It is likely it is the marriage you are looking for, afterall the bride's surname is indexed as HANE which may well be a mis-read for HAM (or vice versa).
Official transcriptions: (scroll down) ... already transcribed, by people familiar with the handwriting of the person recording it in the register :)
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history-research/family-history-search.aspx
JM
JM
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Thank you JM. It is always confusing when the same thing is posted in two countries though I did look at the other thread.
Hopefully the marriage will reveal more information. There is no point in speculating with a name like Smith
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Once we have the info that George provided about his parents when he married in 1873, we can use that to help find which of the many George SMITH migrants on the many passenger lists is actually him. :) :)
If by some chance the NSW BDM document does not have parents info, it should at least give you the name of the clergyman who married them, and the denomination. It is possible then to seek out the church registers to see what was fully recorded there. ;D There can be blanks on those NSW BDM civil registers for the years 1856 to 1895...
JM
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Apologies if I have created confusion by posting in 2 forums. I asked for different info in each that was relevant to that country/city so I thought that would help.
I will be ordering the marriage cert asap and am really grateful for the help in locating what I'm hoping will be the correct one.
I'm still none the wiser about his immigration but if I find the right birth cert and get the marriage cert maybe I'll get some clues there.
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Once we have the info that George provided about his parents when he married in 1873, we can use that to help find which of the many George SMITH migrants on the many passenger lists is actually him. :) :)
There is nobody named George SMITH born 1837 to 1847 arriving as an assisted immigrant into NSW between 1863 and 1873.
Debra :)
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Is 1863 as early as the records go back.
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No, but his death certificate says that he arrived c1874. He may have arrived as a paying passenger or he could have worked his passage as crew.
Debra :)
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Hmm.
https://postimg.cc/w1MzQjn5
Debra :)
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UK birth:
HAM, MARY ANN mmn WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1852 D Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 639
Marriage:
Sep 1841 Bath 11 58
HAM John Charles
WILLIAMS Sarah
HAM Mary Ann 21 Canning 1873 Sydney Reel 2140, [4/4799] Page 62; Reel 2486, [4/4998]
Left London 2 October and arrived 8 January. Shows her to be a general servant from BATH Somerset and she can read and write.
Jamjar
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That marriage says he is George Richard Smith and was born Scotland
Thanks Dundee ;D
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Eldest (youngest) child of 10, Florence Rose Glencora Smith, born 25 March 1895 at 38 Hargrave Street Paddington.
Her baptism shows her name as Florence Glengora Rose.
Debra :)
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That marriage says he is George Richard Smith and was born Scotland
Thanks Dundee ;D
Yes, but his father is George Francis. ;D
Jamjar
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I wonder who he really is ;D
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Might be worth looking through these. I was hoping to find him as crew on the CANNING, but no.
http://marinersandships.com.au/1873/01/7301.htm
Mary Ann has been transcribed as HANG on this site.
Jamjar
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I’ve not had any luck with the Scots side on Scotland’s People.
Jamjar
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Thanks Dundee for the marriage cert. This man is a mystery. I'm busy over the weekend but next week I'll post all the searching I've done for his arrival.
I only joined Rootschat yesterday so I'm not sure of the etiquette. We all have information about this couple. Does that mean we are all descendants of them? Is it ok to disclose your link to them? It seems to me this might help all of us.
Cheers
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Hmm.
https://postimg.cc/w1MzQjn5
Debra :)
Well found Debra, I see it has been reconciled to the Church Registers :)
ADD, residing in George Street ... that's still the main street of Sydney CBD, I wonder if City of Sydney archives for assessment books and for Sands Directories will help find further ... I will search tomorrow if no one else has.
JM
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Thanks Dundee for the marriage cert. This man is a mystery. I'm busy over the weekend but next week I'll post all the searching I've done for his arrival.
I only joined Rootschat yesterday so I'm not sure of the etiquette. We all have information about this couple. Does that mean we are all descendants of them? Is it ok to disclose your link to them? It seems to me this might help all of us.
Cheers
Mira, who is the ‘we all’ and ‘them’?
As this is a public forum you may share the information we find with whoever you wish.
Jamjar
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I think I may have found Mary’s family on the 1851 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGGY-79G
HAM, SARAH ANN mmn WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1842 J Quarter in BATH Volume 11 Page 17
Christening: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMM3-1TB
HAN, WILLIAM JOHN mmn WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1844 D Quarter in BATH Volume 11 Page 3
HAM, JAMES mmn WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1847 M Quarter in BATH Volume 11 Page 17
HAM, CHARLES mmn WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in BATH Volume 11 Page 19
Christening: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTQH-G6V
HAM, MARY ANN mmn WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1852 D Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 639
Christening: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXJC-6Y4
HAM, JANE ANN mmn WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1858 S Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 666
Christening: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWSX-WBD
Death: Deaths Sep 1859
HAM Jane Ann Bath 5c 400
Not seeing them on the 1861. Looking for them in BATHWICK.
Mary on the 1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFJB-D24
A possible for father John on the 1841: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ14-7XV
Death of mother Sarah:
Mar 1881 Bath 5c 472
Ham Sarah 64
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J8R9-RML
Marriage for Sarah and John Charles. Her father, William Williams:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NF9T-1T1
Jamjar
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I only joined Rootschat yesterday so I'm not sure of the etiquette. We all have information about this couple. Does that mean we are all descendants of them? Is it ok to disclose your link to them?
You will probably find that none of us that are trying to help you are related to the family, we just love the challenge to try and solve these puzzles. ;D
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Wonder what happened to the OP? ;)
Jamjar
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Wonder what happened to the OP? ;)
Jamjar
Been online today but not responded to you. It is a shame when you have unanswered replies
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If the OP is me I have just posted in the Australia thread. I've been working on my response on and off all afternoon but kept getting distracted and following up other leads. Have just posted a bit as a start and will keep trying to make a coherent statement of where I'm at and post that.
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Apologies for taking so long. I had to wait until I went to a centre with access to FindMyPast, Ancestry etc and then went away for a few days. Haven't forgotten nor given up.
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If the OP is me I have just posted in the Australia thread. I've been working on my response on and off all afternoon but kept getting distracted and following up other leads.
I know that feeling well ;D