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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: pallain on Thursday 25 October 18 20:27 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I'm looking for someone to point me in the right direction. My great great grandfather (I think) was posted at Richmond Barracks Dublin in 1879 according to the information included in the registration of my great aunt's birth. I know his name: Edward McCann and that he was a Private in the 3rd Battalion Rifle Brigade. His wife's name was Charlotte Chamberlin. That is all i know - at least some of the children stayed in Ireland as my Great Grandmother and her sister lived in Belfast - but I do not know age, marriage dates, death, etc.
I am not 100% sure that this is my great great grandfather - I found him by tracing my great aunt whom I am reasonably sure about.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
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Hi,
Welcome to RoostChat :)
I found this marriage which shows Charlotte as a widow,
Charlotte RUSSELL Mar Q 1877 Dover 2a 1094
Edwin MCCANN
There is an image of the marriage certificate at FindMyPast,
03 Feb 1877
St Mary the Virgin, Dover, Kent
Edward MCCANN
Age: 36
Bachelor
Private 3rd Battn Rifle brigade
Residence at time of marriage: Lime Kiln Street
Father: Michael MCCANN, Shoemaker (deceased)
Charlotte RUSSELL
Age: 32
Widow
Residence at time of marriage: Lime Kiln Street
Father: Charles CHAMBERLAIN, Plumber
I don't know which websites you have access to, so don't know if you can research this info. :-\
I can see some more about who I think is Charlotte but you might enjoy finding it yourself first :)
Can you give some more details about their children so we can help more and try to find them later on.
It's late here so I have to go, I'll check back tomorrow :)
Regards,
Daisy
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Birth certificate for Charlotte on Ancestry public tree https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/tree/60592423/person/36074587474/media/921cf3ce-7471-4335-9abc-e5d2ffc92f3a
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Children:
Rosanna McCann born Dublin 30 July 1879 mmn Chamberlain
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02908/2065609.pdf
Edward McCann born 25 December 1882 in Belfast mmn Chamberlain
(at 14 Sarah Street) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02752/2011046.pdf
Charles McCann born 13 June 1885 in Belfast mmn Chamberlain
(at 14 Sarah Street ) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02640/1973588.pdf
Frances Charlotte McCann born 19 March 1889 in Belfast mmn Chamberlain
( born at 14 Sarah Street ) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02477/1919501.pdf
Probable death for Edward McCann at 10 Sarah Street on 15 January 1893
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/06013/4711615.pdf
Can't find much on Edward's military career. There are pension payments at Waring Street (Belfast) to "E McCann" and "Ed. McCann" of Rifle Brigade. There should be an army file for him but I can't see it. The 1871 "army index" lists Private Edwd McCann 2883, 3 Battalion, Rifle Brigade, in Aden.
Charlotte's trail seems to lead to Glasgow (1901 as Charlotte Gracey) and Govan (1911 as Charlotte Gracie). Daughter Frances Charlotte marries Patrick Mannion in 1909 and they emigrate to Chicago in 1914.
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Thank you everyone for the swift responses. There is a lot of information here and I hope that I am not looking at someone else's family as it is very interesting. What I do know is that my great grandmother was named Mary McCann who died in September 1928. The Belfast cemetery records indicate she was 47 years old. To my knowledge she was never married and her only child (living) was my grandmother Charlotte. On the 1911 census they are listed as boarders, however my grandmother's name was misspelled as Sharlotte. Mary had a sister named Rosanna (also given as Rosina/Rosena/Rosie) who married a man named James McKinstry and they are listed on both the 1901 and 1911 censuses as living in Belfast. I found a marriage record on www.irishgenealogy.ie which gives her father's name as Edward but notes he is a labourer so not sure how this fits with the military connection. Given the age on the census (which I know can be somewhat less than accurate) and the fact that on the 1901 census it says she was born in Dublin I traced this back to the birth/father/mother mentioned in my first post. However, the name is not uncommon and the birth year is an estimate based on the marriage record and census data which sometimes seems a little carelessly put together - really just based on the knowledge of whoever answered the questions and spelling can be wildly different from form to form. So a long winded way to say that I still need to do more research
I can't find a birth record for my great grandmother that fits any of the information above - but I can't find one for my grandmother either - so lack of records is what makes Irish genealogy interesting. I will pursue some of the leads given in your responses and continue to try to track down some concrete information
regards to all
Pat
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In the 1901 census Charles McCann, son of Edward McCann & Charlotte Chamberlain, is in McKinstry household which seems to confirm that the above records are the correct family. Mar's daughter Charlotte likely named after Mary's mother.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Dock_Ward__Belfast_Clifton_/Earl_Street/131540
Charlotte's birth?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01637/1654532.pdf
The McKinstry's also had a daughter Charlotte- born in 1912-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01484/1604090.pdf
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thank you aghadowey for your great detective work.
I had my grandmother's birthday as November 8th 1908 and this one is November 9th but the chances of two Mary McCann's, who don't have a maiden name giving birth to daughters within a day of each other is very slim so I am going accept victory on this front. I now have something to add to my tree and this information also provides me with a new front for inquiry.
The big question now is what to follow up next so I will probably be back to the forum with new questions.
thanks to all for the help.
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Baptism of Rosanna McCann (1879) gives address as Richmond Barracks- LINK (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/f325050338389?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3Dedward%26namel%3Dmccann%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3D%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D1800%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3D%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch)
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Hi,
Birth of Mary MCCANN :)
DOB: 11 June 1881
Curagh Camp
Mary
Father: Edward MCCANN, Curagh Camp
Mother: Charlotte MCCANN, formerly CHAMBERLAIN
Private
Rifle Brigade
Informant: E MCCANN, father, Curagh Camp
Date: 29 June 1881
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02831/2037913.pdf
In 1899 when Rosina MCCANN marries James MCKINSTRY her address is 84 Little York Street, Belfast, and one of the witnesses is Sarah Jane KNOCKER.
In 1901 there is a KNOCKER family living at this address, including a Sarah J KNOCKER and a 20 year old Mary MCCANN, born Co. Kildare. This would fit the Mary born in Curragh Camp which is in Kildare.
The above Mary says she is Roman Catholic (the KNOCKER family are Presbyterian) and born in Co. Kildare but the Mary in 1911 says she was Presbyterian and born in the City of Belfast. Rosina was baptised Catholic but married in the Church of Ireland and she says that is her religion in 1901 and Presbyterian in 1911. Could they have converted?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mx6/
Regards,
Daisy
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Good work, Daisy
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Thank you ShaunJ :)
I might have found Edward leaving the Army, record found at FindMyPast,
British Army Service Records
Series: W0 22 Royal Hospital Chelsea: Returns Of Payment Of Army And Other Pension 1842-1883
Image shows,
Permanent Chelsea Pensioners
Belfast Pension District Advice List
Money Order Account
for the first day of October 1882
No; 1002
Amount: £5 3s 5d
Where Payable: Waring Street
To Whom Payable: E MCCANN
Rank: Pte
Regiment: R Bde
Rate of Pay or Pension: 1 1 1/2
Daisy
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Daisy,
thanks for all of this great information. I think I will look further into the military information you have provided. As far as the change in religion noted in the census data, I think that the notation of Presbyterian on the 1911 census is just whatever the person giving the information provided, not necessarily an answer that Mary would have given. Having said that there is an indication that the family attended the Church of Ireland by the time of my grandmother, at least for baptism and marriage, so another avenue to explore.
thanks very much
Pat