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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: NIKKIBRADLEY on Tuesday 16 October 18 21:55 BST (UK)
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Hi all , who did sidney bradley of west derby born 15 /09 /1895 marry..? no marriage certificate anywhere for him ?( SON OF WILLIAM BRADLEY & HARRIET )
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Welcome to Rootschat.
Have you found Sidney in any censuses with children? If so you can then use the GRO site to find that birth and it will give you the mother's maiden name.
Once you have that, use Freebmd to see if you can find a marriage between Sidney Bradley and a woman with that surname.
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Welcome to Rootschat.
Have you found Sidney in any censuses with children? If so you can then use the GRO site to find that birth and it will give you the mother's maiden name.
Once you have that, use Freebmd to see if you can find a marriage between Sidney Bradley and a woman with that surname.
Born in 1895 he would be too young to show up married with children in the census.
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Sorry, yes Jebber, you're right.
One of those born wrong time - too young for children on the 1911 and probably children will have left home by the 1939 register.
However, if he is your grandfather, what does it say on your mother or father's birth certificate? That should give you the mother's maiden name.
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Marriage wasn't compulsory so maybe he didn't marry anyone.
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We need a bit more information to do much to help, it is too late for me tonight.
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hi everyone !ok so i have him on the census , with children and spouse ! but apparently she wasnt his spouse and there is no marriage certificate to say otherwise , and the reason she wasnt married was he already had a wife !!! ..?
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Which census? He would only be 16 in 1911.
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hi everyone !ok so i have him on the census , with children and spouse ! but apparently she wasnt his spouse and there is no marriage certificate to say otherwise , and the reason she wasnt married was he already had a wife !!! ..?
Can you check you've given us the right information - he can't be in a census with children and wife as if the date of birth you gave us is correct, 1895, as McKha489 said, he'd only be 16 in the last available census. Or have you found him in the 1939 register?
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yes you right i have not got them on the census , i have births certificates for all children with his name on it ! sorry i have been through so much today i have got confused who was on what ! mothers name was young
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bradley barbara s ,young ,birkenhead 8a 644 ( june 1933 )
bradley douglas s ,young birkenhead 8a 784. (dec 1934)
bradley evelyn j young 8a 776 ( 1938)
bradley william e, young wallasey 8a 846
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Is this him on the 1901 census? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9K8-TXR
BRADLEY, AMY mmn HAMILTON
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 130
BRADLEY, ARTHUR mmn HAMILTON
GRO Reference: 1881 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 127
BRADLEY, ERNEST mmn HAMILTON
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 579
BRADLEY, PERCY mmn HAMILTON
GRO Reference: 1887 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 523
BRADLEY, FLORRIE mmn HAMILTON
GRO Reference: 1890 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 90
BRADLEY, BERTHA mmn HAMILTON
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 86
BRADLEY, SIDNEY mmn HAMILTON
GRO Reference: 1895 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 527
BRADLEY, ELIZABETH JANE mmn HAMILTON
GRO Reference: 1897 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 85
Jamjar
Added:
Marriages Mar 1878 W. Derby 8b 418
BRADLEY William Dawson to HAMILTON Harriet
The 1911 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWRY-GH6
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I see no marriage between him and a YOUNG.
It is possible he didn’t marry her and was already married/separated.
Taking his age into account on the 1911 and assuming he remained living in the area, there are these marriages:
Marriages Jun 1915
BRADLEY Sidney to Ada M PRESTON W.Derby 8b 967
A few possible births, first in 1920, Sidney.
Marriages Mar 1926
BRADLEY Sidney to Selina G REDFERN Liverpool 8b 135
Two births up to 1933. 1927 and 1928, Peggy G. and Kenneth S. G.
Marriages Jun 1928
BRADLEY Sidney to Sarah TIPPER Liverpool 8b 195
I see no births for Bradley/Tipper up to 1933.
Jamjar
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Possible death for Selina wife of a Sydney:
Deaths Jun 1983 BIRKENHEAD 37 556
BRADLEY Selina Grace born 28 April 1897
Jamjar
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Cannot see that the 1915 to Preston, and 1928 to Tipper produced any issue - but the 1926 marriage to Selina G. Redfern appears to have had 2 issue: a dau. born 1927 and son 1929.
In 1939 she is living in Cheshire, as is the daughter (but they are not together).
Selina Grace Bradley, nee Redfern, born 28/4/1897 (date confirmed on her baptism) died Jun.1983 Birkenhead. If this was indeed his first wife then she didn't die until after Sidney himself died (l977). Divorce was a costly business in those days and beyond the reach of most plus if Sidney had left her she might not have agreed to a divorce anyway. Whether 2nd 'wife' Gertrude legally changed her surname to Bradley is unknown but a probability I would think. She certainly died as Bradley.
At the moment, this is supposition as we don't yet know if Sidney's first wife was indeed Selina but the details seem to fit.
Annette
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Birth:
REDFERN, SELINA GRACE mmn BROWN
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 209
Marriage:
Marriages Mar 1886 Toxteth Park 8b 377
REDFERN William Henry to BROWN Selina
1911 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWTM-523
(REDFERN, EMMA MULVENA mmn BROWN
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 167)
Jamjar
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Annette, do English marriage certs have all parents names listed?
Jamjar
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Annette, do English marriage certs have all parents names listed?
Jamjar
No Jamjar, Father's only :-(
Meanwhile
Electoral Rolls
1929 - 30 Selina Grace BRADLEY and Sidney BRADLEY both at 75 Arundel Street, Toxteth Park
1934-35 Selina Grace BRADLEY is at 194 High Park Street with
William Henry REDFERN, Selina Elizabeth REDFERN, Bertram Robert TURNER, Annie Maud TURNER
i
1939-1940 she’s at 23 Badminton street,
1950 she is at 23 Badminton with Daughter Peggy G who has now married and her husband, and Kenneth G.
and she’s still there in 1955 along with Kenneth G. BRADLEY
meanwhile a Sidney BRADLEY
also 1929 - 30 is 3 Grenfell Road along with Sarah BRADLEY and Edward TIPPER
This Sidney and Sarah continue thereafter at 34 Cromer Road. Sarah’s death notice is in the newspaper 1967 (still at that address) no mention of children in the notice.
So I think this confirms the TIPPER marriage cannot be the same Sidney as the REDFERN marriage
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Pity they don’t have all names. :-\
Jamjar
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Here's what you'll find on an English(and Welsh) marriage cert.
http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/marriages.htm
Carol
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Am I missing something here - we don’t know the first name of Sidney’s “wife” do we? She would have been the OPs grandmother and will be named on their father’s birth certificate. So surely the starting point should be that?
It could be that it was her who married twice, and if so she wouldn’t have married Sidney under the name of Young, but under her married name. However Young ( her maiden name) would appear on the children’s birth certificates.
Rather than guessing, check your father’s birth certificate.
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wow thank you to all that have looked ,i have looked on my fathers birth certifcate groom it says young , so gertrude was not married before..or indeed ever ! but im sure sidney was ! as the story goes :-X
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wow thank you to all that have looked ,i have looked on my fathers birth certifcate groom it says young , so gertrude was not married before..or indeed ever ! but im sure sidney was ! as the story goes :-X
So we are looking for a Gertrude Young?
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Gertrude Eveline/Evelyn YOUNG b 20 Jun 1906
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yes gertrude evelyn young 1906 yes my grandma !..she later lived in ellesmere port i have all details on her !..its sidney that is the mystery and no marriage certificates !..not the marrying type maybe ?? :)however im told he married before gertrude !
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I think the eldest daughter (in 1939 has a 1931 birth date) may have been registered in Birkenhead in 1931 as YOUNG.
Confusingly there is also a birth in 1930 with correct initial. Both YOUNG with MMN YOUNG
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Also I notice in 1939 Selina BRADLEY has M and then in red pen next to that "or S"
so Married but effectively single????
I think you have to buy the marriage certificate for Selina Redfern and Sidney Bradley to rule it in or out.
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all first children of gertrude young were born in birkenhead ! ..confusing to me is no marriage certificate , ..of either gertude young and sidney bradley nor his previous wife ?( as the story goes ) and possibly children ?? ,,sidneys father being called william !,,connections to derby and birkenhead ..maybe he just never married ???? and yes jamjar thats him on the 1901 census
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see replies 13 to 16 and others re Selina Redfern/Bradley
Marriage is 1926.
2 children b before first of Gertrude's children.
It may not be "your' Sidney BRADLEY but you won't know unless you buy the cert, and as she has a husband Sidney and is then on her own at the right time, it seems awfully co-incidental
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I think you are going to have to accept they didn’t marry, the note on 1939 register mentioned by Mckha489 gives a big hint that was the case. Not that unusual, and after all, if they said they were married who would query it apart from anything official? As long as there isn’t an attempt to defraud you can call yourself whatever you like, so she probably just used his surname for respectability. My aunt did exactly the same!
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thank you all !!! you have saved me days of searching !!..i have a gut feeling we may have found him ! everything fits ...i will order marriage certificate !x
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Do let us know what it says. (Please :))
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.......... connections to derby and birkenhead ..maybe he just never married ???? and yes jamjar thats him on the 1901 census
Nikki, I've only read through this thread quickly but there doesn't seem to be anything about Derby. There is however an area of Liverpool called West Derby, which takes its name from Lord Derby who used to own a lot of it.
As far as I can see, all of the places mentioned so far are either parts of Liverpool (like West Derby and Toxteth Park) or just across the River Mersey (Birkenhead, Ellesmere Port, and Wallasey).
Carol
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Nikki, please make sure you order the marriage certificate from GRO (£9.25) and not from anywhere else. (People have been tricked into paying up to £30 to unscrupulous third parties!)
Carol
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thank you carol ! will do ! will let you all know ;D
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Hello just a co incidence really but my father was a Sidney Bradley (1924-1999) he was also from West Derby