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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Karytay on Saturday 13 October 18 14:19 BST (UK)
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There have been many that have tried to find James Ross and Isabella Lamont both of Scotland. The first time we hear of James Ross is in 1808 In Cape Town South Africa, then know as the Cape Of Good Hope. He has formed a partership with Mr. Morrison and the business is know as Morrison & Ross, 3 Shortmarket Street Cape Town.
Then by 1811 we find him marring Isabella Lamont. (Extracts of marriages at the Cape of Good Hope, 1806-1821 (1920) Botha, Colin Graham, 1883-; The Genealogist)
Marriages at the Cape:
ROSS, James, of Scotland, Isabella LAMONT, of Glasgow. Rev. R. JONES,
12/5/1811. ( Military Chaplain at the Cape (Anglican), Cape Town)
They go on to have 7 children - 6 boys and a daughter.
I have gathered info for their lives in South Africa.
But it is there lives before they came here. Where in Scotland was James Ross born, who were his parents, when did he decide to come to South Africa ?
And Isabella Lamont, all we know is that she is from Glasgow, Scotland. So when was she born and who were her parents. Did she come to South Africa with her parents or by herself ?
These two people are my ancestors on my paternal side. My great grandmother's grandparent.
Seeking help please, and hoping there is more information now available.
Thanks
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Sometimes the names they gave their children can provide some clues as to potential grandparents' names. Scots were known to use in many cases (not always though, or in strict order) Scottish naming pattern. Lots of links for this online, this is just one of them www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm
Monica :)
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This is the family group here? https://www.geni.com/people/Isabella-Ross-SM/6000000039689966160
Monica
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Yes Monica
That is the family.
As you can see the first son John Alexander died as a baby.
Then came the twins, Alexander and James.
So was the names Alexander and James that of the grandfathers?
For late another son gets named John Norman McLead Ross
Or is the names John and Alexander the grandfathers?
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Children:
John Alexander Ross, b. 20 Feb 1812, chr. 12 Apr 1812, d. 28 Oct 1813.
Alexander Ross (twin) b. 17 Jan 1814 chr. 5 Feb 1814
James Ross (twin) b. 17 Jan 1814 chr. 5 Feb 1814
Mary Helen Ross b. 25 Jun 1816 chr. 22 Jul 1816
John Norman McLeod Ross chr. 3 Jan 1819 (English church)
Patrick Colquhoun Ross chr. 4 Nov 1821 (English church)
This is probably an easier way to see children's details from an older post of yours. Also final son from your details, a Robert McMillan Ross b. 1824.
You also have details on Isabella's death in 1844 at the age of 63, birth year therefore c. 1780-1.
Isabella showed as a widow when she died. Have you been able to find anything on James' death to try to firm up approx birth year?
Monica
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No, I have not found James's death info. The death register for the Cape starts at 1834. I have looked from that year up to 1844, nothing. So Jame must of died before 1834
Monica would there be shipping passenger list for that 1808- 1811 to South Africa?
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I don't know, sorry :-\ At a guess, possibly too early.
Have you checked archives such as here www.eggsa.org/arrivals/eGGSA%20Passenger%20Project.html
Monica
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Thanks will check eggsa
Monica, found a civil death entry for James Ross He died 5 Jun 1832 age 59 Cape Town
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Might be worth checking to see if there are any references in Scottish newspapers.
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Yes, thanks
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Great news that you have found details on his death. Hopefully something to now work with trying to find his roots.
Monica
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I hope so!
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Have you looked at the images of the children's baptisms to see whether any potential family could have acted as sponsors (Ross or Lamont)?
www.eggsa.org/cgi-bin/dosearchBaptisms.pl
Monica
Added: Just been looking through some of the images. Doesn't look like any sponsors' details were included :-\
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There were no sponsors or witnesses for any of the children.
What do you think Monica, when you look at the names of the children you do you think would most likely be James parents name and Isabella's
This is James and Isabella's marriage affidavit. Among the witnesses on the bottom left I see a Ross can you make out it out?
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Looks like initials for second Ross....G for first letter?
You can post here for help with deciphering too www.rootschat.com/forum/handwriting-deciphering-recognition/
Monica
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The main first names jumping out to me are John and Alexander, also Mary and Helen.
John and Alexander were repeated following early deaths, which normally indicates an important family name.
They only had one girl Mary Helen, so 50/50 on that one!
We can only use it as a guide really on searches, keeping an open mind of course in case they did not follow any Scottish naming order.
Monica
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That is what I was thinking, John and Alexander and Mary Helen were the one's to look at first.
I did come across this for Isabella
Scotland Births and Baptisms
Name -Isabel Lamont
Gender Female
Christening -Date 06 Dec 1778
Christening Place , RUTHERGLEN, LANARK, SCOTLAND
Birth Date -26 Nov 1778
Father's Name -John Lamont
Mother's Name Helen Armour
I looked up Rutherglen and it is a small town near Glasgow, so this could be a possibility but the birth date does not match with that of her death record. Which works out to 1781
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I saw that one also. Don't worry too much about approximate years. A couple of years out is pretty standard really for these times, together with spelling variants on first and surnames.
One thing to bear in mind when looking at BMD events in Scotland before 1855, and the start of official registration there, is that only about a third of birth and marriages were recorded in the old parish registers. Burials and deaths too were the worst kept of all events. Lots of reasons for this as always, registers lost and destroyed over the years being some of them.
Have you looked for other Ross males in Cape Town at that time and tried to find out more about them to see if they link up to Scotland and possibly James?
The main names coming up in the City and Area Directories for Cape Town are:
George - Superintendent of the Printing Office...maybe witness?
Hamilton - Merchant
Richard - Shipwright
Alexander - Musician
Robert - Merchant
Donald - Cooper
There may be more for sure but these names were the main one showing between 1813-25.
Monica
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Regarding the second Ross on those marriage lines for James and Isabella, I think he was George Ogilvie Ross. Therefore second letter an O.
This George was the Superintendent of the Printing Office, married to a Dorothea. They were having children in the early 1800s in Cape Town.
I haven't firmed up but this George was reputed to be the son of a John Ross and Lady Jane Ogilvie. Also supposed to have been born in Edinburgh in the mid 1770s. He died relatively young in the London area in 1825 in unhappy circumstances. See https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_dss=range&_ro=any&_p=1800&_q=%22george+ogilvie+ross%22
Dorothea remained in England till her death and remarried.
Interesting...but how to possibly connect this to your James...assuming there is a family connection between them.
Monica
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You mentioned George Ogilive Ross being in the printing office, what is interesting is James and Isabella Ross's son Robert McMillan Ross married Margaret Solomon the sister of Saul Solomon who was in the newspaper printing business.
So George Ogilive Ross married a Dutch girl. Dorothea Catharina Steyn. All their children were baptized in the Dutch reformed church. the first 3 children of 7 died as infants.
Will look at the others of the same time period. Thanks
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Some details seem to be available re Hamilton Ross, merchant of Cape Town http://atom.lib.uct.ac.za/index.php/hamilton-ross-papers
Lots of family trees for him following his marriage to Catherina Elizabeth van den Berg.
Bio here www.geni.com/people/Lieut-Hamilton-Ross/6000000014328326210
Monica
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This site has all the Ross's you mentioned and more - http://www.southafricansettlers.com/?page_id=15036
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Hi there, I came across your thread on James Ross and Isabella Lamont by chance. I have just finished transcribing the will of Patrick Colquhoun (Lord Provost of Glasgow and later London magistrate, police reformer etc). He refers to his niece 'Isabella the wife of James Ross now resident at the Cape of Good Hope'. She was the daughter of his sister Mary Lamont (nee Colquhoun). I am fairly confident that these are the same people as it looks like they named their 6th child 'Patrick Colquhoun' (see post by MonicaL, 13 Oct 2018). Hope the information is useful.
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Hi newuser, wow, your info is great! yes that definitely sounds like the Isabella and James I am looking for. Will research it and post what I find. thanks newuser
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Found her parents marriage. John Lamont and Mary Colquhoun- married on the 22 Sep 1775 Port Glasgow. Mary's father Adam Colquhoun, no fathers name for John.
Also found a sister for Isabella Lamont , Mary Ann Lamont christened 10 Jul 1784 Port Glasgow-https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1PR-SQ4
Still cannot find a christening for Isabella. Family search has transcribed all the baptism in collection -Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950, were I found Mary Ann.
So were do I look now?
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Hi Karytay, that sounds about right - same year as her brother Patrick was married. Father, Adam Colquhoun was Keeper of the Register of Sasines for Dumbartonshire, died around 1753. Mother was called Isabel Colquhoun.
Both Isabella and Mary Ann are mentioned in Patrick's will, as is their brother John Lamont. A codicil to the will dated April 1820 refers to Mary (Patrick's sister) as living in Greenock. Patrick left money for her in case her son John died before her and she would become destitute. No mention of what happened to John Lamont Sr.
I cannot find baptisms for Isabella or John Jr either, but I'll keep looking and let you know if I find anything.
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Isabella Lamont died 12 Feb 1844 Port Elizabeth, Cape Colony, South Africa. On her grave it gives her age as 63, so that makes her birth about 1781.
As for her husband James Ross he died 5 Jun 1832 in Cape Town, he was 59. So his birth date is about 1773 some place in Scotland.
James and Isabella's first child was a boy named John Alexander b. 1812 but he died in 1813 age 1year and 8 months. Could this name be that of James Ross's father?
The only girl to be born to James and Isabella is Mary Helen b. 1816 d. 1850. Could Helen be James's mother's name?
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Reply 16
You found her with mother Helen AMOUR
Traditional Scottish naming system has first.girl named after mother's mother
Great research all
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brigidmac I still think what newuser found is correct. I had a look at the Testament/Will of Patrick Colquhoun and I agree that Mary Colquhoun is Isabella Lamonts mother.
Her younger son was named after her uncle Patrick Colquhoun.
Looking at the names of the children again I see the last son has a surname McMillan in his name. He is called Robert McMillan Ross
So my thoughts are was James Ross's mother Helen McMillan ?
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Hi Newuser,
I have a dna match who has the Lamont/Colquhuon family that is mentioned in relation to a Will that you transcribed (or his Cole family). I believe that I am linked to these lines through my ancestor Jane Irwin nee Erskine who was living in Port Glasgow c. 1826 aged about 22. Are there any Erskines mentioned in the Will of Patrick Colquhuon. or anyone with the first names Olivia, Sussannah or Cecilia?.
Regards, Linda M.