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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Brownbaker on Monday 08 October 18 10:30 BST (UK)
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My question is.....
Does the McTaggart name actually have any biological connection with its famous first ancestor, Ferchar Mackinsagart, the 1st Earl of Ross?
The name McTaggart is from of the Old Gaelic "Mac an tsagairt" meaning son of the priest. The first recorded spelling of the name is shown to be that of Ferchar Mackinsagart, dated 1215. During the reign of King Alexander II of Scotland, Ferchar Mackinsagart was knighted the 1st Earl of Ross after defeating the king's enemies, clans MacHeth and MacWilliam in a large battle.
However, information about Ferchar Mackinsagart (later anglicised to Farquhar Macintagart) before the rebellion in 1215 does not exist. He appears to have come from nowhere....However, his ability to defeat the might of the MacWilliam (Meic Uilleim) clans and MacHeths together, suggests that he could command large military resources?
But how then does his surname, Mackinsagart 'son of a priest' apply? According to some historians, Farquhar was perhaps the son of a parson from a monastery and passed into the hands of the Abbots called Sagarts or priests - and he was the possessor of the monastery, in reality a powerful Highland chief probably of the O’Beollan family who commanded the population of the western region.
Farquhar was then most likely an O'Beollan according to historians, and his name Mackinsagart was then a fabrication, or not?
My question is then - did Farquhar's ancestors then carry his surname, Mackinsagart, today McTaggart? Or were his ancestors called O'Beollan (or another different name), does anyone know?
Thank you for your help!
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@ Brownbaker, was this the Battle of Mam Garva on the Braes of Spey?
Skoosh.
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I don't recall a name for the battle...however, one historian described below:
"Malcolm MacEth (MacHeth) was displaced from Moray by King Malcom IV in 1160. His grandson, Kenneth MacEth (MacHeth) joined the rebellion against William the Lion, and was killed in 1215."
What is interesting....is that this rebellion against William the Lion, appears to be the same battle that Farquhar Mackinsagart entered and eventually conquered, the MacHeths and MacWilliams (McUilleams) both.
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See https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015011274175;view=1up;seq=653
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@Forfarian
Thank you for this link. :) Yes, i know this information but not this article.
The link highlights and abbreviates the info compressing it into a paragraph. The article also points to Ferchar Mackinsagart as the vorfather of the McTaggarts too.
@Skoosh
Forfarian's link - states that Ferchar Mackinsagart..."quellled the insurrection at Moray"...perhaps that is how the battle is known.
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Moray referred to a huge area back in the day! Several locations are given online for the battle including Garve in Ross-shire. The Badenoch candidate is Garva (the rough ford), a tricky ford over the Spey & Mam Garva would fit the bill.
Bests,
Skoosh.
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@Skoosh
Thank you for the super info, very interesting. I found a photo of Garva Bridge over the River Spey, gorgeous!
What i also find so interesting too, is the way Mackinsagart chose to fight.....
He attacked from the rear, apparently - but this would imply that he must have had prior knowledge of the attack, to prepare, or perhaps he was part of the original attack...hmmm?
Also...according to records, the clans "fled in fear and hid in the forest"....what did Mackinsagart have that was so convincing and terrifying? History can be so interesting :)
A quote from Rootsweb Worldconnect:
J. Douglas Ross writes: "Fearchar Mac an t'Sagairt (Farquhar Macintagart) was made a Norman knight in 1215 'on the seventeenth day before the Kalends of July' for slaying enemies of King Alexander II during a rebellion in the north. He seemed more than willing to toss out the ancient clan system in favour of a feudal system, for which his price was a Norman Knighthood, the first in the Highlands..."
Perhaps, Farquhar Mackinsagart's choice to install a feudal system, instead of the clans, was to his advantage?
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@ Bb, the old rough ford is immediately downstream of the bridge, uncrossable in a spate till Wade built that first bridge over the Spey in the 1730's. It was very convenient for the Jacobite army in 1745 which had hoped to catch General Cope & his army on the Corrieyairack but he was warned & about-turned for Inverness! ;D
Mam=a rounded hill, fits the bill. The ford is still used for heavy stuff as there's a weight restriction on the bridge.
Skoosh.
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@ Skoosh....i like Bb ;)
Thank you for the history about Garva Bridge on the River Spey. The location appears to be the actual place in 1215 where Mackinsagart fought the "Battle of Mam Garva on the Braes of Spey" and where he first came into being. The location plays an important role in much of Scottish history...!
@Forfarian...thank you for directing me to the article :)
It mentions Mackinsagart's connection - with the 'Red Priest' of Applecross of the O'Beollan clan and descended from Gillapatrick the Red - which could explain Mackinsagart's name 'son of a priest' and his military prowess...but, this connection is not proven. It is an assumption made by historians, which makes alot of sense....but unfortunately is not proven.
If one checks Ferchar Mackinsagart's lineage, there is no reference to a known father or mother...strange?
If Mackinsagart was infact a close relative of the O'Beollan's or the Red Priest - why is it not mentioned officially anywhere?
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If one checks Ferchar Mackinsagart's lineage, there is no reference to a known father or mother...strange?
If Mackinsagart was infact a close relative of the O'Beollan's or the Red Priest - why is it not mentioned officially anywhere?
Probably because it's too long ago and any written records, if they ever existed, have not survived.
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"Probably because it's too long ago and any written records, if they ever existed, have not survived."
True...! :)
Even still....once he was declared 1st Earl of Ross, there must have been interest in his ancestors??
Did he not know his parents names, was he keeping their identities secret and why didn't anyone else know or reveal who he was....hmm?
We are back to question....if Ferchar Mackinsagart came from nowhere, how did he command an attack that demolished two mighty clans?
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I found an very interesting post from Clanman from 2007:
"The clan of Gilleandrais -the servant of St. Andrew, ecclesiastics of Applecross founded on the west coast of Scotland in 671 by St. Mael Rubha of Bangor. The family septs of ÓBeollain [Boland], Anderson, Cairney, Fairlie, Forbes, Foulis, Gillanders, Munro, Reid, Ross, MacTaggart and Urquhart."
Gilleandrais may purportedly be an ancestor of Ferchar Mackinsagart:
EDIT to add:
Quote: „Ferchair Mac an t'Sagairt, was the grandson or great-grandson of Gillandres, one of the six Earls (mormaers) who besieged King Malcolm IV at Perth in 1160. The 'Celtic Scotland,' Vol. II, p.412, states that „the hereditary priests according to tradition, bore the names of O'Beollan and McVuirich in the Black Book of Clanranald“ – and says that Ferquhard (Mackinsagart) was descended from Gillapatrick the Red, the son of Roderick known traditionally, as the Red Priest.“
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=227722.msg1206090#msg1206090
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Even still....once he was declared 1st Earl of Ross, there must have been interest in his ancestors??
Did he not know his parents names, was he keeping their identities secret and why didn't anyone else know or reveal who he was....hmm?
Because in his case his military success was more important than who his parents were ?
He may have been known as 1st Earl of Ross but he wasn't the first Earl of Ross.
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"Malcolm MacEth (MacHeth) was displaced from Moray by King Malcom IV in 1160. His grandson, Kenneth MacEth (MacHeth) joined the rebellion against William the Lion, and was killed in 1215."
What is interesting....is that this rebellion against William the Lion, appears to be the same battle that Farquhar Mackinsagart entered and eventually conquered, the MacHeths and MacWilliams (McUilleams) both.
William the Lion is included on a website - title "English Monarchs". ???
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@Maiden Stone
"William the Lion is included on a website - title "English Monarchs"???"
Thanks for this - yes, i've been confused by this info too.
It raises another question for me however,.....did Ferquar Macinsagart have infact English roots, perhaps not Scottish? It might explain his sudden arrival at the battle, or the ability to keep his heritage hidden?
I
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It raises another question for me however,.....did Ferquar Macinsagart have infact English roots, perhaps not Scottish? It might explain his sudden arrival at the battle, or the ability to keep his heritage hidden?I
If Robert the Bruce (aka Robert de Brus) had "English" roots there's no reason why a lowlier person shouldn't have them. Bruce's paternal roots were transplanted from Normandy (or possibly Flanders); his mother's roots were in Galloway, hence Robert being Earl of Carrick. See various theories of Bruce lineage - Ancestry of Robert the Bruce on Baronage website www.baronage.co.uk/bphtm-03/bruce-02.html
I've no idea as to the accuracy or provenance of the information.