RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: samalexander on Saturday 29 September 18 14:08 BST (UK)
-
Can anyone help me find out more about this family when they were in Ireland:
Edward Callaghan (born abt. 1814, Ireland)
his wife Catherine McLarty (born abt. 1806, Ireland)
They had 3 children:
John Callaghan (B: abt. 1835, Ireland),
Mary Callaghan (B: abt. 1837, Ireland)
and Ellen/Helen Callaghan (B: abt. 1842, Ireland)
All this information comes from the 1851 census of them living at Cotton Mill Row, New Monkland, Lanarkshire, Scotland. They had 9 lodgers (all born in Ireland also) staying with them.
(In 1851 Edward is recorded as a labourer and in 1857 he is recorded on Ellen's marriage certificate as in the Navy)
-
The name McLarty is not showing any where in Ireland,could it be McCarty/McCarthy might help with searching
-
Perhaps her maiden name was McClarty?
-
I think the name was most likely McClarty, however on another record (the marriage of her daughter Ellen) the mother is recorded as "Catherine Bayls" ???
-
McClarty is not to be be found in http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp
but is to be found in
1823-1837 Tithes Applotment Books based upon the index work of the Irish Genealogy Hub’s listing for each parish in Northern Ireland, these are all the entries i found
McClarty, Archd.-Townland: Curran and Drumalis Year: 1834-Larne-Antrim
McClarty, Archd.-Townland: Larne Gardens Year: 1834-Larne-Antrim
McClarty, Danl.-Townland: Savanagharry Year: 1826-Layd-Antrim
McClarty, James-Townland: Coskib Year: 1826-Layd-Antrim
McClarty, Widow Townland: Aughahaugh and Legflugh Year: 1826-Layd-Antrim
McClarty, John-Townland: Killyharne Year: 1825-Skerry-Antrim
but the Callaghans don’t match as easily
Calagan, D.-Townland : Ballymagarry Year: 1826-Shankill-Antrim
Calagan, D.-Townland: Ballymagarry Year: 1826-Belfast-Antrim
Calaghan, Patk.-Townland: Leminighmore Year: 1824-Ballintoy –Antrim
Callaghan, Arch.-Townland: Ballykenver Year: 1832-Armoy-Antrim
moving to Griffiths Valuation for quick searches https://www.failteromhat.com/post1845.php
Mc Clarty William Coshkib Layd Antrim
Mc Clarty John Layd Layd Antrim
Mc Clarty James Layd Layd Antrim
Mc Clarty George Tavnagharry Layd Antrim
Mc Clarty Daniel Layd Layd Antrim
Callaghan John Ballyloughan Ahoghill Antrim
Callaghan Samuel Ballykenver Armoy Antrim
Callaghan Samuel Lemnagh Beg Ballintoy Antrim
Callaghan John Dunnyvadden Ballyclug Antrim
Callaghan William Tully Ballyclug Antrim
Callaghan Daniel Turfahun Billy Antrim
Callaghan Alexander Turfahun Billy Antrim
Callaghan Charles Turfahun Billy Antrim
Callaghan Anne Main Street,(Clogher North) Billy Antrim
Callaghan Rose St Brides,(North-East Division) Carrickfergus Antrim
Callaghan John High Street,Ballymena Kirkinriola Antrim
Callaghan John Bridewell Court,Ballymena Kirkinriola Antrim
Callaghan John Smithfield Townparks Neeson's Court Shankill Antrim
Callaghan Martha St. George's Ward Townparks Brook Street Shankill Antrim
Callaghan Thomas Smithfield Townparks Donaldson's Court Shankill Antrim
Callaghan Thomas Smithfield Townparks Donaldson's Court Shankill Antrim
Callaghan Martha St. George's Ward Townparks Brook Street Shankill Antrim
Callaghan John Smithfield Townparks Neeson's Court Shankill Antrim
so there might be more but we have established at least McClarty as a name in several records
however how do we move forward? any suggestions?
-
It exists alright...
Census http://www.rootschat.com/links/01msn/
-
McClarty 1901 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mso/
-
I think the name was most likely McClarty, however on another record (the marriage of her daughter Ellen) the mother is recorded as "Catherine Bayls" ???
Is it possible to post a small clip with surrounding text for comparison as I'm wondering if this should be Boyle rather than Bayls?
Annie
-
I’ve attached parts of the records - the first is for Ellen/Helen Callaghan’s marriage to Peter Marley in 1857 and then the second is part of her death record. Notice how the marriage record records Catherine as having the surname “Bayls” but on the death record for Ellen/Helen it says Catherine “McClarty”. There’s a possibility that the person recording the marriage got the names wrong as for Peter Marley (the man Ellen/Helen is marrying) his Mother’s name is recorded as “Larkin” when in all other records it is “Millarkey” (Malarkey)
-
I can only view a transcript of 1851 census but in the list of people there are two Boyles - John 26yrs and Neil 15yrs both transcribed as ’mother’.
-
Transcription;
Edward Callaghan 37 abt 1814
Spouse Catherine Callaghan 65 abt 1786
Mother John Boyle 26 abt 1825
1851 SP Index differs for Catherine;
CALLAGHAN CATHERINE 45
651/ 39/ 6 Airdrie or New Monkland Lanark
It looks as though there are errors somewhere/maybe on both as 'Mother' wouldn't be listed unless she was the mother of the head of house?
Have you seen the original to see if Edward was a widower?
Annie
-
Can you clarify what Helen's age was when she married in 1857 please?
Helen was only 2 yrs old on 1851 census & father was a Pit Labourer.
I think you may have gone off the trail somehow?
Edward;
1851 Pit Labourer
1857 Navy
Helen's death Railway Surfaceman
Debating on whether this is your Helen/Ellen who would have been 1 yr old in 1851 rather than 2 yrs old?
Ellen Callaghan
Baptism Age 0
Born 1850
Baptised 31 Mar 1850
Baptised Banteer, Cork, Ireland
Residence Upper Gtmore
Parish Variants Clonmeen
Diocese Cloyne
Mother Catherine Callaghan
Annie
-
Here is all I know-
I’m related through Agnes Marley (born abt 1877, Daughter of Peter Marley and Helen Callaghan according to Agnes’ marriage certificate in 1894)
Peter Marley was recorded as deceased at time of Agnes’ marriage but Helen Callaghan was still alive (in 1894)
The only marriage on ScotlandsPeople that could fit for Agnes’ parents was 1857 in Airdrie - Peter Marley (aged 18) and Ellen Callaghan (aged 17, Ellen’s parents recorded as Edward Callaghan, Navy and Catherine Bayls)
Then in 1913, the death of Helen Callaghan widow of Peter Marley, aged 71 (so the husband is the same and the age matches up with the age at marriage, her parents are recorded as Edward Callaghan, deceased railway surfaceman and Catherine McClarty also deceased)
-
I’m related through Agnes Marley (born abt 1877, Daughter of Peter Marley and Helen Callaghan according to Agnes’ marriage certificate in 1894)
Peter Marley was recorded as deceased at time of Agnes’ marriage but Helen Callaghan was still alive
Have you traced Agnes in all census', where was she born & do dates/places match?
Helen was aged 9 yrs in 1851 on SP index which is a better fit than aged 2!
I think you need to find the birth for Agnes to move up/on?
I would also be checking the 1851 as something is wrong somewhere?
Annie
-
Here is all I know-
I’m related through Agnes Marley (born abt 1877, Daughter of Peter Marley and Helen Callaghan according to Agnes’ marriage certificate in 1894)
Peter Marley was recorded as deceased at time of Agnes’ marriage but Helen Callaghan was still alive (in 1894)
The only marriage on ScotlandsPeople that could fit for Agnes’ parents was 1857 in Airdrie - Peter Marley (aged 18) and Ellen Callaghan (aged 17, Ellen’s parents recorded as Edward Callaghan, Navy and Catherine Bayls)
Then in 1913, the death of Helen Callaghan widow of Peter Marley, aged 71 (so the husband is the same and the age matches up with the age at marriage, her parents are recorded as Edward Callaghan, deceased railway surfaceman and Catherine McClarty also deceased)
Doesn't mean it is correct Marriage!
-
The marriage in 1857 is a good bit prior to 1877 (birth of Agnes) i.e. have you found any siblings for Agnes born 1857 - 1877?
Do you have the family on 1861 1871 & 1881 census'?
Annie
-
I’m related through Agnes Marley (born abt 1877, Daughter of Peter Marley and Helen Callaghan according to Agnes’ marriage certificate in 1894)
Peter Marley was recorded as deceased at time of Agnes’ marriage but Helen Callaghan was still alive (in 1894)
Does Agnes' marriage state her mother as Helen Callaghan or Helen Marley m.s. Callaghan?
Annie
-
The marriage in 1857 is a good bit prior to 1877 (birth of Agnes) i.e. have you found any siblings for Agnes born 1857 - 1877?
Do you have the family on 1861 1871 & 1881 census'?
Annie
I can see the various transcripts of the family through the censuses with children added each census.
1901
Helen Marley 62 yrs with grandson James in New Monkland.
1891
Peter and Helen and several children in Airdrie.
-
"The only marriage on ScotlandsPeople that could fit for Agnes’ parents was 1857 in Airdrie - Peter Marley (aged 18) and Ellen Callaghan (aged 17, Ellen’s parents recorded as Edward Callaghan, Navy and Catherine Bayls)......"
But it doesn't fit""
-
"I can see the various transcripts of the family through the censuses with children added each census.
1891
Peter and Helen and several children in Airdrie"
It may be worth viewing some birth records of their kids to find their date/place of marriage?
Annie
-
Agnes Morley (Marley) was born September 6th 1875, in Clarkston her parents Peter Morley (Collier) and Helen Morley (m.s Kellochan) married October 1856, Airdrie.
The November 1857 marriage of Peter Marley and Ellen Callaghan (both residents of Clarkston where Agnes was born in 1875) is the only marriage of anyone with similar names between the years 1856 and 1857 in Airdrie so that marriage must be them...
-
I would agree going from the information so far, although the ‘Navy’ bit seems odd.
Have you found any marriages for Helen’s siblings?
Who registered Helen’s death?
-
Agnes Morley (Marley) was born September 6th 1875, in Clarkston her parents Peter Morley (Collier) and Helen Morley (m.s Kellochan) married October 1856, Airdrie.
The November 1857 marriage of Peter Marley and Ellen Callaghan (both residents of Clarkston where Agnes was born in 1875) is the only marriage of anyone with similar names between the years 1856 and 1857 in Airdrie so that marriage must be them...
Why?
Ellen’s parents recorded as Edward Callaghan, Navy and Catherine Bayls!!
Agnes born 18 years later!!
-
Why?
Ellen’s parents recorded as Edward Callaghan, Navy and Catherine Bayls!!
Agnes born 18 years later!!
There are at least five children, if not more, born between the marriage date of 1857 and Agnes birth in 1875. She is not the first child.
There are others born after her too.
Did any family members witness Agnes’ marriage?
Although I am confused.
Was the marriage in October 1856 or November 1857?
-
Yes, from what I know she had 7 siblings. One born after her.
-
Do you have any of Helen’s siblings marriages?
-
Perhaps Navy should have been Navvy (so would tie in with Railway jobs).
-
Why?
Ellen’s parents recorded as Edward Callaghan, Navy and Catherine Bayls!!
Agnes born 18 years later!!
Is mother's maiden name on them?
There are at least five children, if not more, born between the marriage date of 1857 and Agnes birth in 1875. She is not the first child.
There are others born after her too.
Did any family members witness Agnes’ marriage?
Although I am confused.
Was the marriage in October 1856 or November 1857?
-
Why?
Ellen’s parents recorded as Edward Callaghan, Navy and Catherine Bayls!!
Agnes born 18 years later!!
There are at least five children, if not more, born between the marriage date of 1857 and Agnes birth in 1875. She is not the first child.
There are others born after her too.
Did any family members witness Agnes’ marriage?
Although I am confused.
Was the marriage in October 1856 or November 1857?
Is mother's maiden name on them?
-
I think you may be confusing the daughter Agnes Marley with the mother Helen Callaghan Marley
Agnes and her siblings will have mmn as Callaghan or variation in spelling.
Helen Callaghan (parents Edward and Catherine) has siblings John and Mary in 1851 census and possibly more elsewhere.
I think that is the case.
-
Ah yes! Perhaps I never even thought of that!
-
Perhaps Navy should have been Navvy (so would tie in with Railway jobs).
Thanks scotmum, that would make more sense!
Annie
-
When is Catherine Callaghan (wife of Edward) last seen on a census was it 1851 & did she die post 1855, has a death been found?
Annie
-
Perhaps Navy should have been Navvy (so would tie in with Railway jobs).
Thanks scotmum, that would make more sense!
Annie
What a good idea - of course :)
-
I believe Catherine's surname to be Boyle rather than Bayle (info. on marriage from Helen herself) & McClarty to be an error?
Could McLarty be the ms of Catherine's mother?
Annie
-
Do any later census' on the family state where in Ireland?
I've found later census' to provide more info. when researching my own Irish.
Annie
-
I believe Catherine's surname to be Boyle rather than Bayle (info. on marriage from Helen herself) & McClarty to be an error?
Could McLarty be the ms of Catherine's mother?
Annie
That’s definitely a possibility, What makes you think that?
-
There were/are different reasons for errors & especially on a DC.
I have a family, illiterate (possibly assumed through only speaking gaelic) as your Callaghans may have been ? which seemed to cause many errors through the language barrier as none spoke English & info. was taken by people speaking English.
I have 5 sons in a family born to my 3 x g g/parents who on their (sons) deaths their mother has 3 m/surnames
4 deaths were recorded by sons/daughters (g/children of mother), only 2 have it correct!
1 death recorded by an 'inmate' (actually an in-law)
1 of those deaths has him as 'widower' of...(mothers name with a different ms)...
Parents were father named correctly, mother...named as the wife (who was previously deceased), him being a 'widower'
I was able to ascertain different things to conclude those were the correct people/deaths through various other routes comparing ages/dates/names of wives/children (informants)/census' etc.
1 of the m/surnames given for my 3 x g g/mother on 2 occasions may be an indication of her own mothers' ms?
Depending on questions being asked, how they are/were asked can determine the reply which may not always be correct as we all perceive things differently with how things are worded & moreso if in a language one has little knowledge of.
Something else to consider is, in days gone by, many women who were widowed reverted back to their m/surname i.e. if g/mother was known (as a widow) by her ms it may have been assumed this was in fact her marital surname i.e. would be assumed the daughters' ms (in this case Catherine) was the same as her widowed mother was known as in latter yrs?
Who was the informant of Helen's death, did they sign or was it their 'mark x' ?
Annie
-
I can only view a transcript of 1851 census but in the list of people there are two Boyles - John 26yrs and Neil 15yrs both transcribed as ’mother’.
Has anyone seen the census page re these two people?
-
I can only view a transcript of 1851 census but in the list of people there are two Boyles - John 26yrs and Neil 15yrs both transcribed as ’mother’.
Has anyone seen the census page re these two people?
Indeed Heywood, I downloaded it last night to check relationships/ages etc. as they were very conflicting on Fancestry & SP although I only had a quick look, from memory I think they were g/children?
Annie
-
From a personal point of view, I don't see a reason for SS not downloading more info. on the siblings of Agnes to find out what is on their certs?
If Agnes had been an only child then it would be understandable to try & get to the root of things with conflicting evidence but there's other avenues (my own example above included) which can be explored.
Further census records too, to see if they give a specific PoB in Ireland?
Annie
-
From a personal point of view, I don't see a reason for SS not downloading more info. on the siblings of Agnes to find out what is on their certs?
If Agnes had been an only child then it would be understandable to try & get to the root of things with conflicting evidence but there's other avenues (my own example above included) which can be explored.
Further census records too, to see if they give a specific PoB in Ireland?
Annie
I plan on obtaining more information by going to ScotlandsPeople, due to the errors of the names it gets very pricey if you don’t know exactly what record you are looking for as you end up downloading records that are no connection to the family you are looking for so I plan to visit SP soon and get all the information on Agnes’ siblings then.
-
Who were the witnesses to Helens' marriage, any clues there?
Annie
-
Who were the witnesses to Helens' marriage, any clues there?
Annie
Darby Marley and Bridget Marley (connections to Helen/Ellen’s husband -Peter Marley) and on Helen/Ellen’s death record it is her son Peter Marley who signed.
-
SS, can you recall where Peter Marley (Snr) was born?
Just wondering if Peter (Jnr) has mixed up the parentage m/surname?
Annie
-
SS, can you recall where Peter Marley (Snr) was born?
Just wondering if Peter (Jnr) has mixed up the parentage m/surname?
Annie
Peter Marley Snr. Was born in Ireland according to the 1881 (LDS) census where he lived at Annieshill Row with his wife Ellen and his 8 children and 2 grand children.
-
Who were the parents of Peter Marley (Snr)
Annie
-
Who were the parents of Peter Marley (Snr)
Annie
The parents of Peter Marley were Darby Marley, and Mary Malarkey/Millarkey as recorded on his death record and the 1851 census where his mother is recorded as ”Mary Millarkey or Marley, widow” but the strange thing is on Peter and Ellen’s marriage certificate - Peters parents are recorded as “Darby Marley and Mary Larkin” where as on other documents they are Darby Marley and Mary Millarkey.
Also, on the same marriage certificate where Peter’s mother’s name looks as though it has been transcribed wrongly that’s the same record that records Ellen’s parents as “Edward Callaghan and Catherine Bayls” where as on her death record her parents are recorded as “Edward Callaghan and Catherine McClarty” it’s really odd that both Peter and Ellen’s mother’s surnames don’t match their death certificates... this is what has me so confused.
-
There's every possibility they were all Irish gaelic spoken i.e. names would differ as well as the accents & I can sort of see where Malarkey may not have been remembered correctly by Peter (Jnr) i.e. he may have recalled what the name sounded like etc. & has possibly come up with a bit of a mix-up with surname & whos parent had that name i.e. Malarkey/McClarty seems a reasonable effort in trying to recall a name he probably seldom heard ???
I think 'Bayles' is definitely a transcription error, it has to be Boyle surely?
Annie
-
Hi
I’m a descendant of David Marley, who was married to Mary Millarkey (Mularkey). I’m trying to find more information on them too as I’d like to go further, but can’t seem to
-
Hi
I’m a descendant of David Marley, who was married to Mary Millarkey (Mularkey). I’m trying to find more information on them too as I’d like to go further, but can’t seem to
Hi, good to hear from you. I've found records which seem to indicate the family were from County Sligo, Ireland.
Sam
-
I looked up
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=marley&firstname=&county=Sligo&parish=&townland=&search=Search
with 6 results in Sligo
Marley Mark Toanlehovan Drumrat Sligo 1833
Marley Mark Toanlehovan Drumrat Sligo 1833
Marley Thoms Lauragh Skreen Sligo 1833
Marley Mauce Ross Skreen Sligo 1833
Marley Domk Ross Skreen Sligo 1833
Marley Margt Ross Skreen Sligo 1833
I opened the Thoms Marley entry
Lauragh townland, Skreen civil parish, Diocese Killalla County Sligo in the year 1833
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625718/004625718_00085.pdf
my reading of original book with difficulty is could be part of property no 130 but in Lauragh townland but nevertheless in townland Carrownurlare as on the previous page and also on this top of this page suggests. now as new section starting with Carrowcuslane townland, the entry read Thom Murray in
quantity 2 acres 2 roods 10 perche? arable rateable value £1.6 shillings. the property above has paid rent £6 for 1acre 4 perches no roods and has rareable land £1 four shillings
leaving Mr Marley with just £1 six shillings.
there are 3 Darby Marley same source in all Ireland
Marley Darby Rosgalliff Burrishoole Mayo 1832
Marley Darby Rosgalliv Burrishoole Mayo 1832
Marley Darby Carroreagh Clondevaddock Donegal 1834
No Peter or David Marley in this source
Millarkey Shaw Glengad Culdaff Donegal 1828
do you think any connection to your interests
-
Samuelscotus, been looking about and found the following:
1851 Scot census Clarkston
Edward Callaghan age 37 pit labourer b Ire
Catherine Callaghan age 45 B Ire
John Callaghan son age 16 pit labourer b Ire
Mary Callaghan daughter age 14 domestic B Ire
Helen Callaghan daughter age 7 B Ire
I then looked at the 1841 census for Edward Callaghan in Clarkston
Edward Callaghan age 25 iron miner born Ire
Mary Callaghan age 25 wife b Ire
Margaret Callaghan daughter age 7 B Ire
Barnard son age 5 b Scot
Patrick. son age 3 b Scot
Matthew. son age 6 months b Scot
Looking at the children's Births :
Bernard 21 Feb 1836
Patrick 23 May 1838
Matthew 6 Dec 1840
Maria 23 Aug 1843
Susan 7 Oct 1845
Rose 2 Feb 1850
Mary 4 March 1852
All children born to Edward Callaghan & Mary(Maria) Boyle
couldn't find a death for Mary Boyle but came across this:
Death of Catherine Callaghan
married to Edward Callaghan-labourer
died 12 July 1871 Old Monkland
70 yrs
father: Timothy McCarry farmer deceased
mother: Mary Boyle deceased
informant: Edward Callaghan X his mark
**note her last name is McCarry not Boyle
in keeping with the census I came across an Edward Callaghan who could be a dad to your Edward perhaps?
1841 census Glasgow Trón Saltmarket
Edward Callaghan age 40 b Ire labourer
1851 census Glasgow Gallowgate
Edward Callaghan age 62 b Ire widower
hardware hawker
Isabella Callaghan age 19 b Ire daughter print field worker
Sarah Callaghan age 14 daughter b Ire piece in cotton mill
* now I have no definitive proof but worth considering. As he doesn't appear in 1871 census there are 3 deaths worth considering- 3 Feb 1859 burial in láir Old Dalbeth cem. (St Peter's) - 18 Jan 1854 burial in láir Old Dalbeth cem age 76 and 1864 death in Calton, Glasgow age 67 mom maiden name McDonald
an aside: found this death maybe related Edward Callaghan age 13 died 1861 Whitburn, Lanark mom maiden name Boyle.
lastly, it may be worth looking at these deaths as they are related to Peter Marley
Deaths:
1868 James Marley age 32 New Monkland Landward mom maiden name Mularky
1868 John Marley age 65 New Monkland Landward
1892 William Marley age 66 New Monkland Landward mom maiden name Millarkie
1899 Bridget Marley age 31 Airdrie mom maiden name Callaghan
1900 Bridget Marley age 65 Airdrie mom maiden name Mulurky
-
To marleyscott1: Do you have anything else on David Marley? I have only found 2 items on a man with this name.
Death:
David Marley age 54.died 1904 Airdrie mom maiden name McLardy
Marriage:
David Marley
Alice Burns/McGinn(marriage under both of these names)
married 1869 in Airdrie