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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: kellysmith1976 on Tuesday 25 September 18 10:28 BST (UK)
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Ive been researching my family tree for years.. And i decided to start on my hubbys, I have searched and gone back a fair way on his mothers side, But his fathers is another story!..
If i tell you what i know for sure, and hopefully someone will be able to help or at least point me in the right direction!..
William Victor Smith born 7 March 1900 (dob from 1939 register), He met and married in 1934 an Ivy Lillian Taylor, In Strood, Kent ..I have Marriage cert, It states Williams Father was called Alexander Smith, (No occupation as says deceased). William Died in 1962, Again in Strood, where the family lived.
I have spoken to Williams Son, Who was only 10 when his dad died, He said His Dad was From Sunderland, and had a 'proper Geordie' accent.. He thinks he may have had siblings, but doesnt remember meeting them. No one else in the family knows anything more about him..
Hubby has had his DNA tested with Ancestry, And his ethnicity is 55% South England, and 45% Celtic ..As I said i have done Hubbys Mums side, and there are no Celtic connections as yet, And i have done Ivy Taylors side again no Celtic.. So im presuming the Celtic must be the Smiths Side..
I have started one line of enquiry, but the line im following has a few people who have also taken the DNA test and Hubby doesnt match to them, so i could be barking up the wrong tree!
Any help or advice please..
Thank you
Kelly x
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Hi there
Was he a bachelor when he married at 34?
Who were the witnesses to the marriage?
I wouldn’t pay much heed to the supposed “ethnicity” results from genealogical DNA tests, to be honest.
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Do you have William in the 1901 and 1911 censuses?
I agree with avm - I would put the ethicity results to the side for the time being. :)
Have you located William's birth certificate?
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He was a bachelor when he married..
The witnesses were both on Ivy Taylors Side,
No I dont have him on any census.. I have him after 1934... 1939 register, his childrens baptisms and his death.. All of which are in Strood, Kent,
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Just to rule out one candidate from near Sunderland: he is unlikely to be the 8mo old William V Smith in Houghton-le-Spring in the 1901 census. That one was registered William Vincent Smith. Parents were Vincent and Julia.
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An online tree refers to a family rumour that William may have been adopted.
Alternatively it tentatively links him to a William Smith shown as aged 5 in 1901, son of Alexander Smith in Jarrow.
Is that your tree, or are you aware of it?
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I was just about to ask if Kelly needed help looking for William in the censuses. :)
If that is the correct William in Jarrow he obviously didn't know his year of birth if he claimed to have been born in 1900 ...
It would be interesting to know how the adoption rumour originated. :)
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The son of Alexander Smith of Jarrow and his wife Rachel nee Chandler (marr Dec qtr 1882 S Shields):
William Smith, mmn Chandler, Dec qtr 1896 South Shields 10a 857.
Doesn’t look a strong match.
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Yes thats my Tree...
I have looked and a few people who have done DNA are researching Rachael and Alexander, and they do not match to hubby.. So i think i have gone in the wrong direction...
The rumour of him being adopted... I have heard it from one person, who was Williams Great Granddaughter, and I would think if it was true, His son would have known about it...
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If the 1901 birth year is correct, there don't appear to be any William Smiths in the 1901 census, with father Alexander, born 2 years +/- 1900 apart from the Jarrow one.
It is tempting to think he is the correct one as he is the only one.
There are, however a few in Scotland .... :-\
Added: I'm not sure how accurate the interpretation of an accent by a 10 year old would be, especially 'X' number of years later ... I would also be asking the Great Grandaughter where she heard that William was adopted. :)
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On His Marriage cert, 24 Dec 1934, He states he was 32yrs
On 1939 Register States his birth as 7 Mar 1900
On death record - died in 1962 aged 62..
His son said, He was 'from' Sunderland... Not necessarily born there.. And he had a geordie accent
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There is certainly a Scottish flavour to the names chosen by William and Ivy for their children, according to the Ancestry tree.
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I know, And i know not to rely on Ethnicity but... 45% Scottish.... Its come from somewhere and Like i said nothing on his mums side, and nothing on his Paternal Grans side either..
Therefore it must be from William Smiths parents
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On His Marriage cert, 24 Dec 1934, He states he was 32yrs
On 1939 Register States his birth as 7 Mar 1900
On death record - died in 1962 aged 62..
His son said, He was 'from' Sunderland... Not necessarily born there.. And he had a geordie accent
Oh I see. Your first post said his son said he was born there.
Slight anomaly between his age at marriage and the year he said he was born. :-\
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ooops sorry.. ill go back and edit to say From.. not born...
And I was trying to find 1911 census in Sunderland, but born elsewhere... but i got so confused...
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Did William and Ivy marry in a church, and if so which denomination was it?
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They married in All Saints Church, Frindsbury , Kent.. Which is Church of England
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Presumably William was too young for WW1 and too old for WW2?
Hoping for service records .... :-\
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How old was Ivy when they married? 32 or 34 was fairly old for a first marriage .... :)
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Ivy was 26yrs when she married...
One clue... Maybe irrelevant... But William was extremely tall.. over 6ft.. So i tried looking into Service records, Possibly thinking he may have inherited his height from his father....
Yes i think youre right though.. He was too young for WW1 and too old for WW2
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Has this been ruled out?
Birth
Apr/May/Jun 1900
Barnet
3a 326
William Victor Smith
mmn Spacey
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Not ruled out... I did look into this, but as William had an accent... I thought improbable... but of course the family could have moved 'up north'
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Has this been ruled out?
Birth
Apr/May/Jun 1900
Barnet
3a 326
William Victor Smith
He is the only perfect match anywhere in England/Wales on full name and birth timing (per 1939 at least).
But I think I looked at him earlier and thought he had stayed local - poss birthdate 11.03.1900 and death in Hendon in 1970.
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Probably wrong
Could his father have been John Alexander
On the 1901 Census
There is John A Smith age 32 Born Scotland
Wife Eleanor Smith age 35 Born Newcastle Upon Tyne
Son William Smith age 7 mths Born Newcastle Upon Tyne
Source Citation
Class: RG13; Piece: 4793; Folio: 54; Page: 26
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Could be... Your Profile pic... thats me right now!!
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There is a death for John A Smith in 1905 Newcastle Upon Tyne with Will
Name: John Alexander Smith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Registration Year: 1905
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 36
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
also a death for Eleanor Smith in 1908 Newcastle
Deaths Sep 1908 (>99%)
Smith Eleanor 41 Newcastle T. 10b 91
Then in 1911 William is age 10 in Newcastle Boys Orphanage
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oooo that sounds promising...
I mean if he was only 5 when his dad died he may not have known his dads name was John Alexander..
definitely one to consider...
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Eleanor came from Gateshead - poss marriage :-\
Marriages Jun Qtr 1899 Gateshead 10a 1523
Eleanor Hood
John Alexander Smith
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Name: William Smith
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 3 Oct 1900
Christening Place: Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
Father: John Alexander Smith
Mother: Eleanor Smith
Name: John Alexander Smith
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Age: 30
Birth Date: 1869
Marriage Date: 3 Apr 1899
Marriage Place: St Edmund, Gateshead, Durham, England
Father: William Smith
Spouse: Elenor Hood (Father Richard Hood )
FHL Film Number: 1514590
Reference ID: rn2 p1
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1901 Census:
29 Bolinghicken Street (Sp?) Heaton, St Silas, Newcastle
John A Smith - age 32, Machine Driller - Ship work born Scotland
Eleanor Smith - age 35, born Gateshead, Durham
William Smith - aged 7 months - born Newcastle upon Tyne
Possible John Smith from previous census - although the fathers name doesn't match - but may also be using a middle name
1891 Census:
Westgate, Newcastle
John Smith age 22, born Scotland living with parents David and Christina and brothers and sister William, David, Edgar and Margaret - all born Scotland
(Piece: 4201, folio 103)
1881 Census - Scotland:
32 St Andrews Sq, Blackfriars, Glasgow
John Smith, age 12 (place of birth - Airdrie, Lanarkshire)
Parents - David and Christina (David is a Tobacoo factory foreman - the David in 1901 also works in a Tobacco factory)
Brothers and sisters - William, David and Edgar (and also an Alexander??)
1871 Census
81 Stirling Street, New Monkland, Airdrie
Parents - David and Christina
Siblings - brother William - 1 month
This John is born in New Monkland on 25 April 1868 to parents David Smith and Christina Stevenson - no middle name on birth record I can see
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oh im even more confused!..
ill definitely look into this tomorrow...
thank you all x
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Only two Smith mmn Hood births in 1900
one is Sidney in London in the September Quarter
the other in William in Newcastle - however it's the December quarter which doesn't match with a 7th March birth (unless late registration)
There is a William Victor Smith born June Quarter 1900 but he's in Barnet - so accent wise the Newcastle one is more likely
The Barnet birth is MMN of Spacey (most likely son of William and Georgina) so I doubt it's him
ETA - found his death in 1970 gives DOB 11/3/1900
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There is a William Victor Smith born June Quarter 1900 but he's in Barnet - so accent wise the Newcastle one is more likely
The Barnet birth is MMN of Spacey (most likely son of William and Georgina) so I doubt it's him
ETA - found his death in 1970 gives DOB 11/3/1900
If a child moves to a different region before adolescence his/her accent tends to change.
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On His Marriage cert, 24 Dec 1934, He states he was 32yrs
On 1939 Register States his birth as 7 Mar 1900
On death record - died in 1962 aged 62..
His son said, He was 'from' Sunderland... Not necessarily born there.. And he had a geordie accent
An uncle of mine put wrong birth year on 1939 Register. He made himself a year older.
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So im back on the case today...
What do you suggest i do?..
Add the 'new' parents to my tree, and see what comes up?.. I think i am going to start tracking through DNA too... See if i get any hits that way...
Kelly
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Just a thought would you be able to get records from the orphanage
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/NewcastleOrphanage/
In the will for John Alexander his effects of £486 16s were left to Eleanor Smith Widow, I can't see a will for Eleanor
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I was just trying to locate where the records are held..
I was on the National Archives, and i cant find the correct years...
Ill keep digging...
I have also found 3 possible siblings to William... Eleanor born 1902, Jessie born 1903, and John Alexander born 1905.. All are in various orphanages in 1911...
So im still no closer, to determining if it is my William!