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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: EdBoyle on Tuesday 25 September 18 09:42 BST (UK)

Title: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: EdBoyle on Tuesday 25 September 18 09:42 BST (UK)
Trying to find the death date and location of James Dalgleish who was born 27 June 1815 at INVERESK, MUSSELBURGH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND. His wife Catherine (nee Inglis) died 3 February 1885 at 42 Drygate Street, Dalserf
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: ColC on Tuesday 25 September 18 11:49 BST (UK)

DALGLEISH   JAMES   WILLIAM DALGLEISH/MARION MILLER    27/06/1815   Inveresk and Musselburgh

Married Catherine Ingles 1837 Yarrow. Selkirkshire

If the above is correct I note form census returns that James is noted as Born Yarrow?

1861 Yarrow?

James 46 a gamekeeper, Catherine 41, David 17, Charles 11, John T 1

James & Catherine still there in 1881

The only death records on Scotlands people between 1855 & 1917 below.

DALGLEISH   JAMES   63   1879   Polmont
DALGLEISH   JAMES   77   1892   Canongate
DALGLEISH   JAMES   78   1893   Newington

Colin
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: EdBoyle on Tuesday 25 September 18 14:26 BST (UK)
Thanks Colin

This is most helpful

I tried all the deaths in the target years, including those you listed, but to no avail. Its still a bit of a mystery. His wife died in Dalserf and her obit can be seen on the attchment...


Ed Boyle
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 25 September 18 15:49 BST (UK)
His wife Catherine (nee Inglis) died 3 February 1885 at 42 Drygate Street, Dalserf

Was James the informant of Catherine's death?

Annie
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 25 September 18 16:05 BST (UK)
James is not at 42 Drygate Street, Dalserf or anywhere in Dalserf by 1895 (Valuation Rolls) as a Tenant/Occupier but could be in lodgings there not listed on VRs?

What was his occ. as he may have been working elsewhere i.e. out of Dalserf?

Is it possible he moved in with or closeby one of his children elsewhere?

Where were his children in 1891?

Annie
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: EdBoyle on Tuesday 25 September 18 17:28 BST (UK)
Annie

Attached

Death cert extract and 2 screenshots showing the info I have on him

Ed

PS, I'm having problems sending attachments so I will do them in stages
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: EdBoyle on Tuesday 25 September 18 17:28 BST (UK)
Death extract
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: EdBoyle on Tuesday 25 September 18 17:44 BST (UK)
His details
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: EdBoyle on Tuesday 25 September 18 17:44 BST (UK)
His children
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: ColC on Tuesday 25 September 18 19:36 BST (UK)
I notice the children were born at Bonhill in the Vale of Leven area of West Dunbartonshire, Scotland, the exception being John born after Stat Reg.

No census as far as I can see 1841/51 but in Yarrow 1861/81.

I did find the following deaths and there seems to be census returns for them.

DALGLISH   DAVID   72   1916   Larkhall

DALGLISH   CHARLES   67   1919   Camlachie

I also found Walter as you mentioned.
DALGLEISH   WALTER   65   1905   Barrhead and Levern

I cannot find James senior, he does not appear to be on the 1891 census but other years are also missing and no clear death record, so it may be worth contacting SP to see if they can help?

Colin
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 25 September 18 19:59 BST (UK)
Have you checked this death, a bit away from Dalserf but not too far?

DALGLIESH JAMES 68 (b c1815 which fits his baptism)  :-\
1883
610/ 61 Old Cumnock (Lanark)

Annie
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 25 September 18 20:17 BST (UK)
Another with matching baptism yr;

DALGLIESH JAMES 84
1909
570/ 47 Lochwinnoch (Renfrew)

Your James' son Walter was in Renfrew when he died although a different area.

Probably digging the bottom of the barrel but looks as though at this stage, anything is possible or worth checking?

Annie
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: EdBoyle on Wednesday 26 September 18 09:24 BST (UK)
Thanks Annie

The search continues.

The attachment shows James was deceased when his son Walter died.

The other list is from Scotlandspeople and shows failed attempts (and payments) to find James's death record.

Ed
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: EdBoyle on Wednesday 26 September 18 09:27 BST (UK)
Oops. Death cert in full
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 26 September 18 10:07 BST (UK)
Just making sure we are looking between 1885 & 1905?

Have you found where his kids were in 1891 as he may be with either of them elsewhere?

Annie
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: EdBoyle on Wednesday 26 September 18 11:31 BST (UK)
Annie, still to do that once I can manage the research resources.

Ed
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 26 September 18 11:55 BST (UK)
Hi Ed,
Just to let you know I have searched for James on A.....ty & SP 1891/1901/1911 in UK to no avail, as I mentioned I found David in Larkhall & Charles in Camlachie and he is not with them.

The last record seems to be the 1885 VR in Dalserf.

Colin
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 26 September 18 19:21 BST (UK)
Colc. I didn't explain properly, although not on the 1891 census with/near family he may have been with either prior to death.

Anyway, this one has age out (could be a transcription error or just a bad guess) but it's next door to Camlachie?

DALGLISH JAMES 52
1890
644/3 1400, Dennistoun

Annie
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: ColC on Thursday 27 September 18 10:56 BST (UK)
James Dalglish age 44 (1837) born Campsie, his wife Isabella and  children are at  72 Millburn St. Dennistoun on the 1881 census. I suspect he died in 1890.

Colin
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 27 September 18 21:48 BST (UK)
I always say...elimination is as good as confirmation  :P

Annie
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 28 September 18 22:34 BST (UK)
Ed, can I ask a question? In the absence of James' death cert to let you confirm his parents' names, why do you think the 1815 entry in Inveresk is his?

He shows as born in the county of Selkirkshire in 1841:

James Dalglish 25 mason
Katherine Dalglish 24,  born outside of county
James Dalglish 3
Walter Dalglish 1

Address: Kirkhope, Yarrow

In 1851, with his growing family in Ancrum, he still shows as born in Yarrow. Colin also mentions the other later censuses show Yarrow as his birth place.

Monica
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 28 September 18 22:45 BST (UK)
Staying in Yarrow, there is this possible entry for example:

James Dalgliesh
Christening YARROW, SELKIRK, SCOTLAND
Birth 11 Sep 1812 Yarrow, Selkirk
James Dalgliesh and Eliza Laidlaw

James was name of his first born son wasn't it? Next son called Walter after Catherine's father likely.

A number of children showing for this couple in Yarrow:

Adam 1805
Margaret 1807
David 1808
Eliza 1810
James 1812
Elizabeth 1815

From Family Search, parents' marriage or banns show in Yarrow in 1803 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY79-9YW

Monica
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 28 September 18 22:58 BST (UK)
In the 1841 census in Yarrow area, Adam b. 1805 also shows as a mason as your James did in 1841.
Not conclusive!

However, some family trees online have claimed this James b.1812 as part of their family and have him moving and dying in Canada.

As you are trying to do, it is down to finding James' death reg for now and hoping informant knew his parents' names.... :-\

Monica

Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 28 September 18 23:17 BST (UK)
Unless there are a number of James Dalgleishes born in Inveresk in the time frame you are looking at, this may be the James for whom you found an entry for from Inveresk on the 1891 census:

James Dalgleish 75 retired army b. Inveresk
Agnes Dowie 69 cousin b. Corstophine Midlothian
Joan Russell 16 servant

Address: 42 Leamington Ter, Newington Midlothian

Monica
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 29 September 18 03:58 BST (UK)
Good analysing Monica (as usual)!  :)

Changes things a bit as Ed will need to check all those 'Wrong James' death entries again to see if one has James Dalgliesh and Eliza Laidlaw as parents.

Annie
Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: EdBoyle on Sunday 30 September 18 13:06 BST (UK)
Thanks for continuing to look at this for me. Every suggestion is helpful.

I had considered the possibility that he may have gone to the 'States and lived with son David or son James. Also, that he may have gone to England to stay with daughter Barbara or son John but all my research to-date has found no evidence of this, census etc. Also, he was 70 at the time of his wife's death and it does not seem likely to me, that he would give up all he knows and move from Scotland but anything is possible. His son Walter remained in Scotland but again, I can find no links via census etc. There is another son, Charles but he disappears from the radar after 1871 and despite much research, I cannot find his whereabouts but that is another route I suppose.  It really is the biggest Dalgleish mystery for me! The death certificate of son James (d 1893) may provide a clue but I can only get this by sending a cheque for $40 to the US as its not available on line. Plus there is no guarantee that his father is mentioned on the certificate.

For example, daughter Barbara died in England in 1886 but there is no mention of parents on the death certificate (see attached). That's a real shame because that may have given a great clue.

I know he died before 1905 as he is marked as deceased on son Walter's death certificate. That's the only hard evidence I have. Apart from Barbara and James (don't know about Charles) all the others died after 1905.



Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 30 September 18 17:12 BST (UK)
I know he died before 1905 as he is marked as deceased on son Walter's death certificate. That's the only hard evidence I have. Apart from Barbara and James (don't know about Charles) all the others died after 1905.

This was all dependant on the knowledge of the informant of Walters' death i.e. maybe not known (for sure) & possibly assummed as we don't know the circumstances of things etc!
Just thinking of different scenarios as it did/does happen.

Who was the informant?

Edit...Of course it's more likely true (even if not known for sure) going by James' age/yob.
I was just pointing out how things can be wrong on deaths e.g. ages/parents/maiden name etc.

Annie

Title: Re: James Dalgleish Dalserf Lanarkshire
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 30 September 18 18:59 BST (UK)
The death certificate of son James (d 1893) may provide a clue but I can only get this by sending a cheque for $40 to the US as its not available on line. Plus there is no guarantee that his father is mentioned on the certificate.

For less than $40 (approx. £30) you could view many of the possibles on SP which you haven't yet checked, doing it in stages of £10 at a time i.e. not a lump sum in one go.

£30 would buy you 120 credits @ £0.25 each (40 per £10 @ £0.25), each DC would be 6 credits at 0.25p each = £1.50 per cert. i.e. £30.00 would buy you 20 certs. of your choice.

Annie