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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: KGarrad on Tuesday 14 August 18 08:24 BST (UK)
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I wasn't that fussed with this episode?
Concentrating on just 2 people - IMHO it didn't offer any new insights into Family History?
I prefer those episodes that trace a family through a number of generations ;D
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It did give him insights into the lives of people he actually wanted information about.
The documents produced were interesting, especially those showing the way his grandfather claimed to be much younger than he really was, a tactic still used by migrants today.
In fact it showed that documents can be found pointing the way even in obscure parts of the world and about the more awkward parts of history.
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Yes --
quite a difficult one to watch
He was able to face it and take it all in..
None of it was really what he wanted to hear - No happy rich forbears -
Just sad stories so very close to home and within my lifetime (almost - well nearly - )
Brave of him to sit and listen to stuff like that in the eye of the public...
yes
a deep one.
but necessary - no fluff -
xin just xin's opinions :)
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I agree with Xinia. A difficult one to watch but I couldn't NOT watch it once it got going.
The question I would have liked answered although nobody would know the answer:
Did his Grandfather know his family were on that train and did he know they wouldn't come back.
His poor Grandmother certainly had her work cut out for her with the two men in her life.
I thought Robert Rinder was very genuine and had tears in his eyes at times. The letter from his Grandfather to the man who helped him obviously moved him a great deal.
I would be wrong to say I enjoyed it - but it was good TV.
Rishile
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I thought this was a very interesting episode, could have watched more, as I would have liked to have known how the young Israel in Latvia got to England. I think they said he was in England from about the age of 15, although I don't think they produced a 1911 census for him.
Extra info - I would have liked to see some maps illustrating the histories.
Lisa
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There is a book, which is both wonderful and at the same time absolutely devastating, by Martin Gilbert called 'The Boys' which tells in great details the life stories of the boys before and after they came to England. There are a couple of mentions of Robert's grandfather, and a great deal about Ben Helfgott who he met up with during the programme. Also a lot about Friedmann, the psychiatrist.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mif/
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I think they said he was in England from about the age of 15, although I don't think they produced a 1911 census for him.
The family are in Whitechapel in 1911, Israel aged 20.
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I guess it depends what we, as individuals, want from our family history research. This to me was not a programme that was seeing how far back they could go, but finding some genuine facts about the life experience of those people, harrowing as it was.
The documentary evidence was fascinating too.
I did lose track part way through, so will need to watch again on iPlayer.
FS
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I thought it was a really good episode, brought me to tears mind you. Such sad stories. I like it when the mix it up and focus on the lives of one or two people rather than trying to go back as far as they can. It challenges the idea that some people have that genealogy is just 'name collecting' and illustrates how much we can potentially delve into the lives of out ancestors. I know that people on RC know what genealogy involves but it spreads the message to a wider audience.
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I cannot get enough of these at the moment..
Would love to see the Australian or Canadian or any?!?! versions.
xin
Every new G.g or relation I discover, I learn about .. its wonderful - from the Vagabonds and the sloths.. to the wonderful hardworking good men and women.. I love em all.. get angry with the ones that dropped a baby behind them each time they went to sea. Cry for the hardworking fwks and farmworkers. GET darned angry, when all the cottages and land have Gone... :( (not really) but wow - what I know about my lot -- wow...
xin
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There is a book, which is both wonderful and at the same time absolutely devastating, by Martin Gilbert called 'The Boys' which tells in great details the life stories of the boys before and after they came to England. There are a couple of mentions of Robert's grandfather, and a great deal about Ben Helfgott who he met up with during the programme. Also a lot about Friedmann, the psychiatrist.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mif/
Yes, - I remember reading this quite a few years back now, - very interesting.
Romilly.
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I found this interesting, although I'm afraid, I did not know anything of the man himself or his work. Agreed, it started with known things, and fairly close in time span, and covered things that he might quite well have guessed. Agreed, he'd been to some places previously, and already knew some people who were providing the information, but it had a good flow to it, and it worked.
Already I can't wait for the next series. This series has regained its form, after a couple of weak series. I hope that it continues to be made.
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I think they said he was in England from about the age of 15, although I don't think they produced a 1911 census for him.
The family are in Whitechapel in 1911, Israel aged 20.
thanks, will have a look tomorrow (and give you a shout if I need to ask the surname, which I can't recall in full)
Lisa
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KGarrad wrote:
"I wasn't that fussed with this episode?
Concentrating on just 2 people - IMHO it didn't offer any new insights into Family History?
I prefer those episodes that trace a family through a number of generations"
And I absolutely agree.
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I found it very interesting, I was aware it was going to mainly concentrate on two people from a write up beforehand. It covered a topic about we should all be regularly reminded, especially with antisemitism being in the news a lot at the moment.
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Knew next to nothing about Judge Rinder before this show, but took an instant like to him :D
He seemed a nice, genuine, family man who allowed people to speak and tell him the story of his family without talking over them.
The stories of both his grandfather and his great-grandfather were difficult and harrowing. As usual, I'm amazed by the records /photos/letters that have been found.
The scene where he was reunited with Ben Helfgott was particularly moving - I had a wee tear or two in my eye :'(
Looby :)
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I agree with loobylooayr and pharma.
It was a completely fascinating programme. The young gentleman (and he was truly) was unknown to me. He seemed such a decent family oriented person so no wonder he wanted to know the truth and nothing but the truth about his two ancestors.
My husband and I were totally moved by the lives of these Jewish ancestors of Robert Rinder. Thy were just two out of millions!
A very good series of WDYTYA this time round.
Judy
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I enjoyed this episode too and Robert Rinder is a charming gentleman who came over as very interested and moved by the life stories of his grandfather and great grandfather.
This series is different but very enjoyable. Sometimes quality is better than quantity in my opinion.
A very moving episode dealing with the Holocaust and how it affected his family.
Dorrie
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The thing that has struck me about this series.
Apart from the lack of self searching in the records.
Is that every one of the subjects so far has been very enthusiastic
and beguiled about what has been found.
And all of them have been so grateful to the researchers for that information.
Whereas some of the two previous series there has been some apathy.
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I'm a bit confused. What happened to Israel's family? Did they manage to escape Latvia and get to England? Or did he have to leave them behind?
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I thought this was an excellent episode, and incredibly moving - I think it's the first time I've ever seen the 'expert' getting teary too, at Robert's reaction to the letter inviting Friedman to his grandparents wedding.
I can sometimes get a little bored when only 2 people are featured, but not in this episode - I wanted to know more and was pausing the TV to try & read the documents in full. I noticed that the asylum admission made reference to previous institutions, although these weren't mentioned.
In ways this was similar to the Boy George episode - relatively recent history and a tough watch at times, but very interesting and (thankfully) no OTT weeping from the 'celebrity'.
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Overall I liked the way the progamme went.
The date of birth issue made sense in the circumstances. I really liked Robert's reaction to grandfather wanting his real birth date corrected for the records. The Judge came out with reaction to all the 1930 birth years.
The wedding invitation and response were special. Ten pounds was quite a sum in those years.
Looking forward to next episode.
Jfch
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I'm a bit confused. What happened to Israel's family? Did they manage to escape Latvia and get to England? Or did he have to leave them behind?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWPM-GR8
This looks to be the family.
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I thought that the programme was very moving and was better for concentrating on just the two men.
It must be so difficult to see, hear and read of the suffering, when it is your own grandfather whom you have known and loved.
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I thought it was rather surprising that the programme didn't visit the Treblinka Site, where the GreatGrandparents and their children had all been killed, while they were filming in Poland.
I don't know how far Piotrkow is from Treblinka, but it was quite near to Warsaw I think?
But perhaps it would have been too upsetting?
Romilly.
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Romilly they are around 250km/160 miles apart.
I wondered that myself but as you say perhaps it would have been too upsetting to televise. Maybe he made a private visit while he was in Poland.
Also, I wonder if there are restrictions on camera crews filming inside Treblinka for this kind of television programme?
Dorrie
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Thanks Dorrie for pointing out the distances involved.
I think that the reason I wondered about this is because so many previous 'WDYTYA' episodes seem to have involved people visiting Auschwitz... Possibly this is because more has been preserved at that Site?
And no, I don't think there are any filming restrictions at the Treblinka Site; it features in the film 'Shoah' for example.
Romilly.
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Good episode. One of my faves TBH. Robert Rinder seems to be very proud of his grandfather Moses. He looks like him as well.
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I did not understand how they were allowed to see the medical records
of the gentleman in the asylum,
as I have all ways been told that these are not allowed to be seen before 100 years have past .
or maybe this is just regarding Lincoln Bracebridge Heath asylum .
Eilleen.
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I thought the medical records had a stamp at the top, saying "Closed until 2019".
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maybe it was because -- it is 2018 .. so close and perhaps all parties agreed ..
xin
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I thought you could access medical records as long as you could prove that the person in question was dead and that you were a relative. :-\
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Not what I was told,
100 year rule apply's .
maybe different Counties have different rules ?
Eilleen.
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Well looking at TNA catalogue it seems to vary depending exactly what you are looking for - Some examples below
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/health-social-policy-1919-1939/
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/hospitals/
So perhaps that is the key and why they were able to access the asylum records.
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I'm a bit confused. What happened to Israel's family? Did they manage to escape Latvia and get to England? Or did he have to leave them behind?
Same here, I didn't expect that story to open up within the constraints of programme timing, however a 10 second one-liner to close it off would have been nice. Unless I missed it... ???
But otherwise a very watchable episode for me, the greater focus on fewer ancestors made for an interesting change.
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I thought the medical records had a stamp at the top, saying "Closed until 2019".
They did
I was only able to get my great grandfathers mental instituition records because he'd been dead over 100 years
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I have only just caught up with this on iplayer
What an amazingly moving episode. Reduced to tears myself.
It makes me hope we can learn from history as sometimes it appears we simply continue to repeat it.