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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Cboyd13 on Monday 06 August 18 21:41 BST (UK)
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Hi looking for some help traced back to a Samuel Cowan he is the father of Mary Cowan and she was married to Hugh Boyd I have found out Mary was born 1834 not sure where but she was married in Northern Ireland
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For starters:
Marriage, 1 January 1852 at Ballynahinch, Downpatrick, County Down, Ireland
Mary Cowan to Hugh Boyd
Fathers: Samuel Cowan and Robert Boyd
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Thank you 😊
Really struggling with tracing Samuel Cowan and Robert Boyd now
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Hello CBoyd.
Let me know if you find out anything more about your Boyd ancestor. My g-g-grandmother was Agnes Boyd, daughter of James Boyd (Annahilt). It was also there that she married , in 1858, Samuel Ferguson (son of Alexander Ferguson).
All I know of James Boyd was that he was a weaver (as per the marriage certificate). The mother of one or the other of my g-g-grandparents may have had the surname Black.
Agnes was born around 1839 (19 at the time of marriage).
Good luck in your searches.
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Thank you 😊
Really struggling with tracing Samuel Cowan and Robert Boyd now
Where have you searched?
Handier as it saves people looking at all the stuff you have searched.
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Cert
Party 1 Name HUGH BOYD
Party 2 Name MARY COWAN
Date of Event 01 January 1852
Group Registration ID 3218166
SR District/Reg Area Downpatrick
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I am wondering if someone would have better luck deciphering my g-g-grandparents marriage certificate (or have access to a clearer copy), specifically the names of Witnesses for the marriage of Agnes Boyd and Samuel Ferguson, and maybe explain the what is written under residence at time of marriage?
Thanks!
PS: Still not clear on what a Townland is vis-à-vis a Parish, etc. Samuel Ferguson resided at Magheranock Parish of Maghreadrool and Agnes Boyd at Ballymurphy Parish of Annahilt (both in the Diocese of Dromore?)
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My g-g-grandmother was Agnes Boyd, daughter of James Boyd (Annahilt). It was also there that she married , in 1858, Samuel Ferguson (son of Alexander Ferguson).
Party 1 Name SAMUEL FERGUSON
Party 2 Name AGNES BOYD
Date of Event 28 February 1858
SR District/Reg Area Downpatrick
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09548/5461701.pdf
Her residence was Ballymurphy townland in the civil parish of Annahilt. Halfway between Annahilt and Ballynahinch.
https://www.townlands.ie/down/annahilt/ballymurphy/
James Boyd is mentioned in the 1863 Griffiths Valuation.
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p6y/
Samuel Ferguson was from Magheraknock. Magheradrool CP.
https://www.townlands.ie/down/kinelarty/magheradrool/magheraknock/
KG
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In the Griffith Valuation it says that William Black was the lessor for the house of James Boyd. But it appears that William Black himself leased the land from the Marquis of Downshire. Does anyone know how that worked? (off-topic, I know but life is like that ;-)
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Have a look at https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/griffiths-valuation.html
KG
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Thanks! I'm working through it now :D
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Hi,
Sorry haven't managed to get further back than that marriage unfortunately. Hugh Boyd had a son Samuel who was my great grand father.
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Alexander Ferguson a widower married Mary Anne McKee in 1845
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1845/09290/5363693.pdf
Samuel Ferguson is probably from his first marriage
his son Alexander
to Mary Young
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1875/11203/8105398.pdf
To Christina Small
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10773/5928997.pdf
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Glassdrummon/Magheraknock/1238258/
Susanna is his daughter from Mary Young
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Glasdrumman/Magheraknock/247447/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p7e/
Selina
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11350/8166693.pdf
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In the Griffith Valuation it says that William Black was the lessor for the house of James Boyd. But it appears that William Black himself leased the land from the Marquis of Downshire. Does anyone know how that worked? (off-topic, I know but life is like that ;-)
It was just a normal subletting arrangement. If I lease some land which has say a house and several cottages on it, I may live in the main house and sublet the cottages.
I don’t know exactly where your Black family lived or their occupations, but if they were farmers then most farms had some labourers cottages. The farmer (who would normally be leasing himself) would sublet those cottages, to anyone who needed them. Sometimes widows but often to labourers. The labourers sometimes paid their rent in cash, sometimes by an agreed number of days work a year on the farm and sometimes by a mix of the two. Labourers weren’t needed much on farms in the winter so generally weren’t offered permanent work. Today we’d call them GIG economy workers. In the winter months the labourers would often do weaving work if not needed by anyone else, which gave them extra income.
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Alexander Ferguson a widower married Mary Anne McKee in 1845
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1845/09290/5363693.pdf
Samuel Ferguson is probably from his first marriage
Yes, I figured that too ;-) Samuel was born around 1833. I am thinking that Samuel and/or Alexander had a brother James. When Alexander married Mary Ann McKee, he was 40 and she was 20ish (I had the info but not an image!). I have been able to identify 3 children for Alex and Mary Ann: The eldest, Agnes Jane Ferguson married Andrew Long.
his son Alexander
to Mary Young
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1875/11203/8105398.pdf
Thank you for that! I didn't have that information.
To Christina Small
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10773/5928997.pdf
I did have that Alex Jr married a Christina but didn't have a maiden name, so thank you for that as well! I noted the daughter Susanna and a son Alexander (b 1891). The marriage entries in both marriages, however, indicate that Alexander was a bachelor, not a widower for the marriage to Christina, which poses a bit of a problem.
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Glassdrummon/Magheraknock/1238258/
Susanna is his daughter from Mary Young
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Glasdrumman/Magheraknock/247447/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p7e/
Selina
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11350/8166693.pdf
I had also found that Selina had married a Robert Ferguson. Curious to know how the two families may (or may not - it's a common name) be related!
Anyway, you've provided me with some new information so I'll investigate further... Thanks again :)
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It was just a normal subletting arrangement. If I lease some land which has say a house and several cottages on it, I may live in the main house and sublet the cottages.
That makes sense. I just don't want to assume anything because I am really not very familiar with life in Northern Ireland in the 19th century!
I don’t know exactly where your Black family lived or their occupations, but if they were farmers then most farms had some labourers cottages.
My great-aunt tried to provide me with as much family history as she could remember (this was back in the 80s - and she was born in 1898) Her father was the son of Samuel Ferguson who left NI with his young family before 1881 - they settled in Workington (CUL) The Black reference is vague but I've learned to never discard family stories... I wrote down that somebody's wife was Agnes Black, daughter of Sir Black. And I think Samuel had a brother or uncle who was a minister. So as you can see I am just trying to piece together a few very indistinct pieces of a puzzle!
The farmer (who would normally be leasing himself) would sublet those cottages, to anyone who needed them. Sometimes widows but often to labourers. The labourers sometimes paid their rent in cash, sometimes by an agreed number of days work a year on the farm and sometimes by a mix of the two. Labourers weren’t needed much on farms in the winter so generally weren’t offered permanent work. Today we’d call them GIG economy workers. In the winter months the labourers would often do weaving work if not needed by anyone else, which gave them extra income.
[/quote] Yes, and James Boyd was a weaver so it would also make sense he would just rent a house. In Ballymurphy he rented from a William Black who rented from the Marquess of Downshire. I'm wondering if the John Boyd, who also rented land from the Marquess was close family to James Boyd. One day I'll make it over to Ireland! Maybe then I will be able to figure things out more easily! In the mean time, these bits and pieces of information help me understand the social landscape a little better. THanks for you input!
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Death of Mary Young/Ferguson 1885 wife of Alexander informant Mary Anne Ferguson mother in law
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06281/4799690.pdf
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Thanks again, dathai, for taking the time to look these up. Your searches are very effective! It would seem that I still haven't quite got the hang of this site, although I did find that two of the Long daughters married Cairnsduff brothers! Also that Selina's husband Robert remarried in 1881 - The year that Selina died after 2 yrs of ill health.
Given that Alexander Ferguson isn't particularly an uncommon name, my only concern is the marriage record to Christina states that Alex was a bachelor; it isn't inconceivable that there were two Alexanders in the same vicinity - cousins perhaps. But I guess the fact that they "both" had fathers named Alexander makes that much less likely! Still, odd that the younger Alex wasn't designated a widower for the marriage to Christina, since he already had a child... but then I suppose civil records aren't as intimate as church records. Sorry - just trying to work through the logistics!!!
You mentioned that Mary was the mother of Susanna. This would make sense if Alex married Mary in 1875 and also that the son Alex, born around 1891, was the son of Christina if Alex married her 1888, after Mary's death in 1885. I was unable to locate the birth record for either Susanna (1877) or Alex Jr. Were you more successful or did you extrapolate on the basis of the two marriages?
Cheers :)
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Susanna 1875
28
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03094/2134546.pdf
Marianne 1878
378
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02981/2092243.pdf
Alexander 1890
324
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02412/1899291.pdf
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I'm impressed and grateful. I'm not sure why I couldn't find those records on my own! Thank you!
PS (modified)Bonus: Susanna Ferguson's cousin, Alexander long appears on the same page. ;-)
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The handiest way is just do search using Surname and District
then use the filters for Births or whatever and get them by decade.
ALL Civil Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for Ferguson of Lisburn
LINK http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p7h/
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Yes, I have been using the browsing by area function - focusing on Lisburn and Downpatrick for these families but I think I get lost in what I have done or not - or maybe I just missed them... some of these names are fairly new discoveries for me! ;D
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(modified) Oh! I just realized I had been passing over records that had N/R because I was assuming that they were incomplete transcripts that wouldn't be as helpful given that I don't have a lot of information to begin with - my mistake, clearly because the records are often viewable and the info is there.... I will be a little more vigilant... I've already found a few more records now...
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The witnesses to the Boyd/Ferguson marriage are James Ferguson and William Rutherford
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09548/5461701.pdf
James Ferguson ?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1849/09367/5392455.pdf
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The problem is because the Index was used when compiling records which is why one sees n/r or unknown, but the actual cert provides full details thereon.
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Forgot to say any with Returns Page No don't have Images at moment but will have eventually.
Also....Right click on 4 or 5 names, Open in New Tab to check them
Much easier/faster!
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The witnesses to the Boyd/Ferguson marriage are James Ferguson and William Rutherford
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09548/5461701.pdf
Thought it might be a James but wasn't sure ;-)
James Ferguson ?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1849/09367/5392455.pdf
Seems like that James marriage is a good candidate for a brother of Samuel - If Alexander was about 40 in 1845, he may well have been first married by 1825... I'm guessing he also had a son John (no doubt other children as well) Of course, I realize that there is a lot of speculation involved here, but I like having information to disprove if not prove better than nothing at all!!!
I wonder if there is a list of ministers in the area (a John Ferguson, perhaps). I was told the Fergusons of my family started out Ch. of I. but because of some issue around a burial that angered (Alexander?) they switched over to Presbyterian... really not sure just when that happened or which family members it affected (again, this is based on my great-aunts incomplete accounts)!
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Forgot to say any with Returns Page No don't have Images at moment but will have eventually.
Also....Right click on 4 or 5 names, Open in New Tab to check them
Much easier/faster!
And you don't have to prove you're not a robot half as often!! ;D
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I'm really grateful to have access to the site (especially the images!) but if I were to make a suggestion (apart from suggesting they go easy on the robot thing), it would be the option to enter the parents' names!! :-\
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Forgot to say any with Returns Page No don't have Images at moment but will have eventually.
Also....Right click on 4 or 5 names, Open in New Tab to check them
Much easier/faster!
And you don't have to prove you're not a robot half as often!! ;D
Just buy a robot and program it to do that bit! ;D
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Samuel Cowan
« on: Monday 06 August 18 21:41 BST (UK) »
Quote
>>>>Hi looking for some help traced back to a Samuel Cowan he is the father of Mary Cowan and she was married to Hugh Boyd I have found out Mary was born 1834 not sure where but she was married in Northern Ireland<<<<<
Seems this original post was hijacked! I feel it has closed down any response that may/could have come to light, I am interested in this Samuel Cowan post.
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Reply #5
Cert
Party 1 Name HUGH BOYD
Party 2 Name MARY COWAN
Date of Event 01 January 1852
Group Registration ID 3218166
SR District/Reg Area Downpatrick
* cowan mg cert.pdf (215.38 kB - downloaded 5 times.)
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oops
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ALL CIVIL REG Birth, Marriage and Death results for Boyd of Downpatrick
LINK http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p7k/
One can click on Marriages or whatever and also get them by Decade
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Seems this original post was hijacked! I feel it has closed down any response that may/could have come to light, I am interested in this Samuel Cowan post.
Yes, Sorry about that - It was innocent enough ::) Hopefully the original poster will benefit from some of the research tips!!
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Change Surname as needed...and Search
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Any with Returns Page No don't have Images at moment but will have eventually.
Also....Right click on 4 or 5 names, Open in New Tab to check them
Much easier/faster!
And you don't have to prove you're not a robot half as often!!
-
ALL CIVIL REG Birth, Marriage and Death results for Cowan of Downpatrick
LINK http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p7l/
Any with Returns Page No don't have Images at moment but will have eventually.
One can click on Marriages or whatever and also get them by Decade
Also....Right click on 4 or 5 names, Open in New Tab to check them
Much easier/faster!
And you don't have to prove you're not a robot half as often!! :-X
Safe site, free Certs!
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Samuel Cowan
« on: Monday 06 August 18 21:41 BST (UK) »
Quote
>>>>Hi looking for some help traced back to a Samuel Cowan he is the father of Mary Cowan and she was married to Hugh Boyd I have found out Mary was born 1834 not sure where but she was married in Northern Ireland<<<<<
Seems this original post was hijacked! I feel it has closed down any response that may/could have come to light, I am interested in this Samuel Cowan post.
The likes of this happens when threads go stale from no reponse from original poster after 5 or 6 months....things just move on!
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I hadn't noticed, but you're right, hallmark - it is an old post. I actually came across it when searching (via Google) for more about the Boyds in Ballynahinch, where my Boyd ancestors were from... so my posts here might actually get the interest in the Cowan and Boyd families going again; suzyvan - your own interest in it just may be a case in point! ;)
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One can now feast on Cowan and Boyd records in lockdown mode... :o
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Hi I did reply eventually but everyone had moved on but thanks for in initial help. Still not made much progress though
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Samuel Cowan
« on: Monday 06 August 18 21:41 BST (UK) »
Quote
>>>>Hi looking for some help traced back to a Samuel Cowan he is the father of Mary Cowan and she was married to Hugh Boyd I have found out Mary was born 1834 not sure where but she was married in Northern Ireland<<<<<
Seems this original post was hijacked! I feel it has closed down any response that may/could have come to light, I am interested in this Samuel Cowan post.
Yes, I agree and I'm very sorry about that. It hadn't been my intention :-[
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I have Samuel Cowan who married Elizabeth Burns in Newry 1865, in my ancestry . Elizabeth/Eliza (Poss) sister was Sarah Ann Burns who married John Boyd in 1861 also Newry
Sarah Jane burns was born 1837 Crallagh? and Baptised 1837 3rd Presbyterian Rathfriland parent Joseph Burns and Jane McCrum
Eliza Anne Burns was born 1842 Crallagh? and baptised 1842 3rd Presbyterian Rathfriland parents same as above
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>>>Hi looking for some help traced back to a Samuel Cowan he is the father of Mary Cowan and she was married to Hugh Boyd I have found out Mary was born 1834 not sure where but she was married in Northern Ireland<<<<<
Mary Cowan Boyd married on 1/1/1852 so she was about 18 when she married.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGF9-DJK?lang=en
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Hi shanreagh - This is what I had sent to the original poster in a PM
Samuel Cowan was a weaver and appears in the Griffith Valuation records in Magheranock (parish Magheradrool). He is renting from Samuel Gillespie who in turn is a tenant of David S Ker. (Samuel's name also happens to appear a few lines above my Alexander Ferguson, so perhaps they even knew each other - I also have Boyd ancestry but they were in Ballymurphy in the mid 19th century)
https://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/z/zoomifyDynamicViewer.php?file=083082&path=./pix/083/&showpage=1&mysession=2992235897390&width=&height=&debug=
The following is the marriage record for Mary and Hugh, which can be accessed from here https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=8f6abc883a-2035823
Mary had at least one brother, James https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/P73B-NN7
If you are interested in what lives may have been like in Ballynahinch area, I recommend the videos by a local historian uploaded to YouTube by the "Rowallane & Slieve Croob Community Twinning Group," which give a good overview of the evolution of the area, particularly the series called "Ballynahinch buildings a Chronology 1-2-3.." - which isn't just about buildings but the area's history as well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26tgnyNsfAY ) - the one about the Battle of Ballynahinch is informative too!
Good luck!
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(Marriage record transcript)
Magheradroll Parish Church, Ballynahinch, according to the Rites and Ceremonies United Church of England, 1st day of January 1852
Hugh Boyd 25yrs bachelor, Labourer of Ballycreen (Magheradrool), father Robert Boyd, Labourer; Mary Cowan, full age, spinster of Magheranock (Magheradrool), father Samuel Cowan, Weaver. Witnesses James (?), Robert McSwaine