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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: bevmatth on Monday 06 August 18 21:38 BST (UK)
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Help!
This couple have been driving me nuts for a while now! ??? :'( My great grandmother Mary Richardson was born 7Th May 1887 in Hulme, Manchester with parents on birth certificate as Mary Richardson (formally Thompson) and William Richardson. They also had 5 other children.
I have tried numerous ways of trying to find their marriage in the civil registers with no joy at all! The only evidence I can find is on FindMyPast and that is a transcribed only church record from Prestwich, St Mary in 1882 of a William Richardson and Mary Thompson. It has no original image so cant verify the information and it also doesn't give fathers details for either the bride or groom.
I really want to find the civil record for them so I can order the marriage certificate to find out the fathers details so any help/advice anyone can give to find it would be very much appreciated.
Thank you so much.
Bev
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I'm wondering if it's banns rather than a marriage.
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Prestwich_St_Mary,_Lancashire_Genealogy#Online_Records
Lan-opc seems to have transcribed that year, (not there) and lancashirebmd doesn't have it either.
Pauline
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The images for Prestwich st Mary can be viewed. On Familysearch, here is the page, no Mary Thompsonhttps://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-65SS-2Z?i=56&wc=M6FD-1MS%3A143838901%2C158886501%2C159259501&cc=1788853
Mike
Posting the link again
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-65SS-2Z?i=56&wc=M6FD-1MS%3A143838901%2C158886501%2C159259501&cc=1788853
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Thanks for that. I had looked at these image but like you found no Mary Thompson. They really have me stumped! :'(
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Freebmd has a marriage June quarter 1880 in Chorley, Mary Thompson with a William Richardson on the same page, Williams entry is in italics which has some significance but I don’t know what
Mike
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Freebmd has a marriage June quarter 1880 in Chorley, Mary Thompson with a William Richardson on the same page, Williams entry is in italics which has some significance but I don’t know what
Mike
John Grimshaw married Mary Thompson in Chorley - Lancashire BMD
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Freebmd has a marriage June quarter 1880 in Chorley, Mary Thompson with a William Richardson on the same page, Williams entry is in italics which has some significance but I don’t know what
Mike
That William married Emily Nicholson in Blackpool so that rules him out
Mike
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This looks good. Do you have it?
1871 3999/145/9
117 York Street Hulme
Elizabeth Thompson 46 yrs
Hannah Thompson 11yrs
Eliza Thompson 8 yrs
William Richardson lodger 19yrs Gardener b Liverpool
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There are Chorlton births for Mary, Hannah and Eliza Thompson with mmn Buckley - could be the family perhaps?
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1861 2893/10/13
127 York Street Hulme
John Thompson 37 yrs Pattern Maker b West Ward Cumberland
Eliza Thompson 37 yrs b Manchester
Mary Thompson 4 yrs b Manchester
Hannah Thompson 1 yr b Manchester
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did your great grandmother become Mary Sutton and were her siblings Hugh, William, Alice, Hannah & James?
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did your great grandmother become Mary Sutton and were her siblings Hugh, William, Alice, Hannah & James?
Ah now, I have siblings to Mary Richardson in 1891 - John W; James and Annie :-\
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did your great grandmother become Mary Sutton and were her siblings Hugh, William, Alice, Hannah & James?
Ah now, I have siblings to Mary Richardson in 1891 - John W; James and Annie :-\
I was querying because there is this other family that fit mmn Gannon for all those I listed (5 siblings to Mary as stated by OP) including a Mary Ann registered June qtr 1887. I wondered if that Thomspson birth certificate was the wrong one
William Richardson married Mary Ann Gannon in Pemberton in 1883
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I was assuming Manchester because of the ‘marriage’ details given.
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Freebmd has a marriage June quarter 1880 in Chorley, Mary Thompson with a William Richardson on the same page, Williams entry is in italics which has some significance but I don’t know what
Mike
It is in italics because it is mistranscribed. It should be Fylde 8e 803
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I was just trying to think 'outside the box' really. Assumptions are often made and a wrong certificate sent for. The poster has not given any census details to prove the area born or details of the 5 siblings
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Good point.
At the moment though, I don’t think there is a likely marriage, is there?
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I was just trying to think 'outside the box' really. Assumptions are often made and a wrong certificate sent for. The poster has not given any census details to prove the area born or details of the 5 siblings
Mmm. Not sure I can find the birth now that I found to check the quarter so I could be completely wrong there.
Apologies if all this is wrong!
Added
Found it - I was confusing Richardson and Thompson ::)
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Wow!Thanks everyone.
Here's what I do know:
William Richardson and Mary Thompson had 6 children
John William Richardson 1882 Bap: 21 June 1883 (Born: 17 Dec 1882) - St Mary's, Hulme Manchester
James THOMPSON Richardson 1885 - No baptism found
Mary Richardson (My great grandmother) 1887 Bap: 7 July 1887 (Born 7 May 1887) - St Mary's, Hulme
Annie Richardson 1890 - No Baptism found
Edith Richardson 1893 - Bap: 1 Feb 1894 (Born 29 Dec 1893) - St Mary's, Hulme
Arthur Richardson 1896 - Bap 14 Jan 1897 (Born 23 Nov 1896) - St Mary's, Hulme
In all baptisms found Williams occupation is listed as a gardenerThis looks good. Do you have it?
1871 3999/145/9
117 York Street Hulme
Elizabeth Thompson 46 yrs
Hannah Thompson 11yrs
Eliza Thompson 8 yrs
William Richardson lodger 19yrs Gardener b Liverpool
I had looked at these and thought this was the most likely family for Mary Thompson especially with the added bit of William Richardson being a gardener from Liverpool.
1891 Census (Hulme, ED 62, Piece 3198, Folio 5)has
William Richardson - Liverpool, Gardeners Domestic
Mary Richardson - Manchester
John W Richardson - Manchester
James T Richardson - Manchester
Mary Richardson - Manchester
Annie Richardson - Manchester
1901 Census (Hulme ED 32, Piece 3704, Folio 85, Page number 24, Household schedule number 146)
William Richardson 47 - Liverpool, Gardeners Domestic
Mary Richardson 44
John Richardson 18
James Richardson 16
Mary Richardson 13 (My great grandmother)
Annie Richardson 10
Edith Richardson 7
Arthur Richardson 4
Arthur Sims 22
1911 - Hulme - 10 Paxton Street.
William Richardson 58 - this occasions says born Hulme, Lancs, Gardener jobbing
Mary Richardson 54 - All listed as Hulme, Lancashire
James Thompson Richardson 26
Annie Richardson 20
Edith Richardson 18
Arther Richardson 14
On my great grandmothers marriage record for her marriage to William Henry Denham in 1908 it has her father as William Richardson, Gardener and abode as 10 Paxton Street as in 1911 census.
I think thats most of the detail I have except for the darn marriage of William Richardson and Mary Thompson! ???
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Mary in 1871 living at 25 Greengate Salford ??
Thomas Hibbert 48
Alice Hibbert 39 (nee Buckley)
Sarah Hibbert 16
James Hibbert 14
Alfred Hibbert 11
Thomas Hibbert 6
Alice Hibbert 3
Charlotte Florence Hibbert 1
Mary Thompson 14 (mmn = Buckley)
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That’s good. The information I posted will hopefully help,with Mary Thompson’s parents. I think they married before 1851 so you can hopefully go back from there.
There are one or two candidates for Mary in 1871 - there is one in Newton, Manchester which is moving towards Prestwich but that is quite tenuous. You would wonder, why they would not marry in the Hulme area.
Maybe something happened to stop the marriage plans.
You could try checking the Banns Register -Pauline suggested it may be banns rather than marriage.
https://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/211536/st_mary_prestwich/category/787/banns_books
Just seen lancsann’s post - another candidate for Mary.
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and in 1861 ??
John Thompson 37
Eliza Thompson 37
Mary Thompson 4
Hannah Thompson 1
mmn Buckley for both
& for the Eliza in 1871
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and in 1861 ??
John Thompson 37
Eliza Thompson 37
Mary Thompson 4
Hannah Thompson 1
That is one I posted earlier - reply #9
The couple are in 1851 but I stopped posting earlier when there might be some doubt.
They married 1847, I think, which seems a long time before Mary’s birth. There was a child Joseph ? with mmn Buckley and a possible death for the child.
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1881
living in Ogden Street Prestwich
David Wynn 45
Jane Wynn 39
Bertha Wynn 10
Elizabeth A. Wynn 7
Edith Wynn 3
Betty Jackson 70
William Richardson 28 (boarder born Everton) occ gardener
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this Joseph?
Baptism: 14 Nov 1852 St George, Hulme, Lancashire, England
Joseph Thompson - Son of John Thompson & Eliza (formerly Buckley)
Born: 25 Sep 1852
Abode: 8 Heron Place, Russell St. Hulme
Occupation: Joiner
Parents' Marriage: Cathedral, 1848
Baptised by: William Whitelegg
Register: Baptisms 1846 - 1853, Page 283, Entry 2261
Source: LDS Film 2113127
Baptism: 8 Feb 1857 St George, Hulme, Lancashire, England
Mary Thompson - [Child] of John Thompson & Eliza (formerly Buckley)
Born: 15 Dec 1856
Abode: York St Hulme
Occupation: Pattern Maker
Parents Marriage: Cathedral 1847
Baptised by: W. Whitelegge
Register: Baptisms 1853 - 1862, Page 179
Source: LDS Film 2113127
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Yes, I think that looks like the one Lancsann. I just noticed the birth in GRO and then checked the deaths where there was possibly one that fits.
It all looks good for Mary’s parents.
That’s a great find for the Prestwich census and provides more evidence re the ‘marriage’.
Maybe there would be something in the Banns records.
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Maybe they just never got round to marrying.
I have a couple who I have everything about including a will but have been searching for years for a marriage. I know they were not married in 1841 but were supposedly by 1851.
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Yes, something may have happened at the time and they were then too busy raising their family.
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familysearch has the actual date of the marriage for Mary and William as 18th October 1882, wonder where they got that from.
Marj
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familysearch has the actual date of the marriage for Mary and William as 18th October 1882, wonder where they got that from.
Marj
I wonder that as well, but it’s not on the images. St Mary Prestwich does not put the name of the church on its marriages, just “the parish church”
There is a St Mary’s in Hulme, images are supposedly available but I cannot see this church mentioned in the list of churches under the film no. Other churches in Hulme are there
It would not be the first time Familysearch has got two churches of the same name confused, but why it’s not on freebmd I don’t know
Mike
Added, I have looked at St Marys Parsonage images for 1882, it’s not there
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This marriage - William Alfred Worsley and Ann Jackson is shown on FS in the two forms - transcription and then another entry with image.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-65S3-QY?i=55&cc=1788853
William Richardson and Mary Thompson just have the transcription.
Not sure what indicates though.
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Hi all
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you all. I've been away for a few days.
Thank you all so much for your hard work!
This was the family that I had ear marked as Mary Thompson but was hoping to get some confirmation with the marriage.
I've tried various local parishes around the Manchester area and can not find the marriage anywhere! ???
The biggest problem I have is to clarify who William Richardson's father/parents are a there are multiple options for him in Liverpool though the find, which I hadn't found, for 1881 with William Richardson in Prestwich stating his from Everton will hopefully be a big help!
I will keep persevering with finding the marriage or at least the Banns and any ideas of where to go will always be appreciated!
If the baptism in 1857 is the correct Mary, and I think it is, then it means she was born 1856 not 1858 so will have a look at BMD for her there.
Wish me luck looking at Liverpool!