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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Chalm on Monday 30 July 18 21:07 BST (UK)
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Hi I am trying to find out information about the children of John Forbes 1810 Leochel Aberdeenshire Scotland and his wife Catherine Bain 1811. I want to know if he had a son called Alexander and if he had where Alexander was born. Thanks
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Hello
FamilySearch has children,
Charles 1836
Isobel 1838
John 1840.
Can't see any more children. nor can I see them in 1841, though there is an Isobel in Leochel with a Widow Forbes aged 60.
Bev
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Is this them in 1841? All b Aberdeenshire
John Forbes 30 merchant
Catherine 30
Chas 4
John 1
Isabella Stronach 15
Jessie Stronach 18
Barbra Stronach 10
Old Machar ED 30 Page 22 Line 1010
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In 1851 they are transcribed as Forbis and only John aged 17 is in household with John & Catherine. Still in Old Machar and all are shown as b Aberdeen Aberdeenshire
Where did you get the info from that they may have had a son called Alexander?
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Someone else’s public tree on ancestry.com has many of the same people. On this particular tree Alexander’s parents are listed as John forbes and Catherine Bain from Scotland though Alexander was born in Londonderry 1843 Northern Ireland. Alexander is my great grandfather. I cannot find any information about his parents. He is in the 1901 and 1911 census listed as living in Belfast. I was hoping the other tree was my missing link but can’t find any proof. Any help appreciated.
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Hmm...
Something not adding up?
Son John aged 1 in 1841 but 17 in 1851 rather than 11 or close too?
I also find it odd for a child, namely Alexander born 1843 not to be with his parents in 1851 unless he can be found with relatives/neighbour/friends?
Not too sure what to think for now though :-\
Annie
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Someone else’s public tree on ancestry.com has many of the same people.
Please do not be persuaded into believing anything you have no proof of as many people accept 'hints' believing them to be correct!
Ancestry match names/dates but I don't think location is considered ie. up to the individual who accepts the hint to prove there's a link.
What was the occupation of Alexander's father on his marriage/death?
Have you traced the 'supposed' siblings from the census' in Scotland to compare their details on marriages/deaths for the occ. of their father John?
Annie
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Never trust info from somebody else’s tree as it can be incorrect. Always do your own research
When and where did Alexander marry? Who did he marry? Would his marriage cert have his parents names and mother’s maiden name?
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The furthest back on my family tree I’ve got is my great granda Alexander forbes born 1843 in Londonderry. The census in 1901 says he was 56 and born in Londonderry and his wife was Margaret Louisa age 27 born in England. They lived in Galwally Breda Down at this time. In the house also lived Alexander’s brother John age 61 not married, Alexander’s children David aged 1 and Alexander (My granda) aged 3, and Matilda born in Scotland who is listed as Alexander’s sister in law aged 11. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I knew not to trust the other tree but was curious I case it was correct.
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46 Scottish born Forbes 1911 census http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mfu/
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The furthest back on my family tree I’ve got is my great granda Alexander forbes born 1843 in Londonderry. The census in 1901 says he was 56 and born in Londonderry and his wife was Margaret Louisa age 27 born in England. They lived in Galwally Breda Down at this time. In the house also lived Alexander’s brother John age 61 not married, Alexander’s children David aged 1 and Alexander (My granda) aged 3, and Matilda born in Scotland who is listed as Alexander’s sister in law aged 11.
What is Matilda's surname?
Where was 'brother John' born according to the 1901 census?
Annie
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Both Alexander & John are shown as b Londonderry. There is an 11yr old Matilda Forbes shown as sister in law b Scotland.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000744532/
There is a matching birth on SP for Matilda Forbes b 1890 St Rollox
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
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1891 for Glasgow - all children after Margaret were b Glasgow
David Forbes 38 b Ireland
Mary 38 b Ireland
Margaret L Forbes 17 b England
Alexander 14
David 12
James 10
William 8
Sarah 5
Mary Forbes 4
Matilda Forbes 1
Glasgow Barony ED 60 Page 5 Line 21
Per freebmd
Births December qtr 1873
Forbes Margaret Louisa Gateshead 10a 833 mothers maiden name Pickering
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Marriage March 1897 Belfast
Name Alexander Forbes
Event Type Marriage
Event Date Jan - Mar 1897
Event Place Belfast, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jan - Mar 1897
Registration District Belfast
Volume Number 1
Name Margaret Forbes
Event Type Marriage
Event Date Jan - Mar 1897
Event Place Belfast, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jan - Mar 1897
Registration District Belfast
Volume Number 1
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Good work Carole!
I haven't looked into things but I don't think the John (brother of Alexander) is the same John who was born Aberdeen?
It looks very coincidental though but what makes me wonder is the religion of John (b Scotland) being 'Moravian' as well as stating he was born Londonderry :-\
Annie
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I think the fact no daughter is named Catherine after the mother may be a clue to being a different family?
The scots did have a naming pattern although not always used rigidly but for the most part I think a mother's name would be prominent in most cases?
Annie
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The furthest back on my family tree I’ve got is my great granda Alexander forbes born 1843 in Londonderry. The census in 1901 says he was 56 and born in Londonderry and his wife was Margaret Louisa age 27 born in England.
Do you have their marriage cert. to confirm at least the name of Alexander's father & his occ.?
I don't think you can be sure of anything if you don't have the marriage cert. as the names of their children don't match with what I'd expect?
Witnesses to the marriage may also hold clues?
Annie
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The census in 1901 says he was 56 and born in Londonderry and his wife was Margaret Louisa age 27 born in England. They lived in Galwally Breda Down at this time. In the house also lived Alexander’s brother John age 61 not married, Alexander’s children David aged 1 and Alexander (My granda) aged 3, and Matilda born in Scotland who is listed as Alexander’s sister in law aged 11.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Breda/Galwally__rural_/1238697
Here's the 1897 marriage for Alexander Forbes to Margaret Forbes-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10440/5801844.pdf
Alexander (1898)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02098/1799382.pdf
David (1899)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02022/1775935.pdf
Mary Ellen (1902)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01914/1742028.pdf
Kathleen Primrose (1904)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01830/1715348.pdf
James (1906)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01743/1688452.pdf
Wesley (1907)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01679/1667944.pdf
Florence Louisa Mildred (1908)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01627/1651347.pdf
Elizabeth (1910)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01552/1627790.pdf
Forbes family in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ormeau/Gipsy_Street/212127
continued next post...
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1911 census says 9 children but only 6 living so there's one whose birth I haven't found and Wesley and Florence died young.
Wesley died 1908-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05507/4543206.pdf
Florence died 1910-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05431/4518538.pdf
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So at the time of the 1897 marriage - Margaret’s father David was about 44 and his son in law Alexander was about 52
There must be some connection between the families given that Margaret’s parents were both born in Ireland and the surname on both sides is Forbes
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Thank you so much for everyone’s help. We don’t have a marriage certificate for Alexander born 1843 which means we don’t have his fathers occupation. Is there a way I can get a copy of the marriage certificate? Sorry I’m not very experienced in this trying to help my dad make the breakthrough he is looking for to the previous generation.
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I did wonder too about the families being connected and the age of my great grandfather when he married. I’ve spent a lot of time over the past few days trying to sort through info. Husband complaining as housework being neglected😂😂
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Aghadowey thank you so much for all the links to births and the marriage. I’ve just been looking up all the documents. Can’t wait to print them out and visit my dad this afternoon to show him. He knew he was named after his great uncle John but now we can see his great granda was called John too.
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John Forbes died 1910- brother Alexander was informant-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05422/4515517.pdf
Death notice gives us first clue to where Forbes family lived in County Londonderry ;D
Belfast Telegraph, 20 Aug.1910: FORBES— August 20, at the residence of his brother, Walmer Street. Ballynafeigh, John Forbes, aged 70, late of Gracefield, Magherafelt.
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John Forbes, Ballymaguigan, age 90, died 1891- informant son Alexander-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06084/4735808.pdf
The Will of John Forbes late of Ballymaguigan County Londonderry Farmer who died 8 February 1891 at same place was proved at Londonderry by John Rodgers of Ballyrounan [Ballyronan] said County Farmer one of the Executors. Effects £127. Not probated until 2 Nov.1894. Will dated 7 Aug.1890 mentions wife Eliza, "my two sons John & Alexander," £1 to son George.
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx
Eliza Forbes died 1893 (which probably explains why John's estate wasn't probated until 1894)- son Alexander again was the informant-https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/06005/4709019.pdf
In 1831 Census there's a John Forbes in Ballymaguigan townland- 2 males & 2 females in household- religion is under column 'other Protestant Dissenters' (not Church of Ireland or Presbyterian)-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Loughinshollin/Artrea/Ballymeguigan/101/
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According to this online tree- needs to be checked for accuracy but information from church records-
https://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jerrydoyle&id=I21590
John Forbes married Eliza Miller
Son John born 21 Aug.1839 Gracefield and baptised at Moravian Church there 22 Sept.1839
Son Alexander born 12 May 1842 Gracefield and baptised at Moravian Church there 12 May 1842
More details in tree
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History of Gracefield-
http://www.woodschapel.armagh.anglican.org/en/History-Of-Woodschapel-St-John-s-/History-of-Gracefield
Map showing location of church-
http://www.woodschapel.armagh.anglican.org/en/Gracefield
Recent photo- LINK (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gracefield_Moravian_Church_now_Woodschapel_COI_-_geograph.org.uk_-_94751.jpg)
The burying ground would have been known as God's Acre, men buried on one side and woman on other side. Due to the belief that everyone is equal the old headstone lie flat on the ground. Unusually for Northern Ireland there would have been only one burial per grave.
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I've been trying unsuccessfully to find out more information about George who was only left £1 in the will. We were trying to think of a reason why poor George didn't get more like his 2 brothers. I haven't yet been successful in moving forward on this with his birth or death certificate. The will was very unfair - poor George!
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I've been trying unsuccessfully to find out more information about George who was only left £1 in the will. We were trying to think of a reason why poor George didn't get more like his 2 brothers. I haven't yet been successful in moving forward on this with his birth or death certificate. The will was very unfair - poor George!
How do you know the Will was unfair? perhaps George had already been supplied with funds (education?, apprenticeship?, business?, was foster child raised by Forbes family, etc.) and is was felt he had received his fair share.
Reasons for parental disapproval might include intemperance, religious differences, lifestyle, choice of profession or girlfriend/wife...