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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: smayne on Monday 23 July 18 21:33 BST (UK)

Title: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Monday 23 July 18 21:33 BST (UK)
Can anyone help me to find any details on my great grandmother.. from germany...i have been on ancestry no luck... her name is F kessler.. first name unknown.

..birth date 13 june 1900 ..born osterode hartz.. thankyou ..
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Rena on Tuesday 24 July 18 00:13 BST (UK)
Osterode Harz is in Prussia and I see on this familysearch webpage:-

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Prussia,_West_Prussia,_and_East_Prussia_Online_Genealogy_Records

it states the genealogy website "my heritage" has a database of some online west Prussian church books.

url link

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mee/

I see there are over 400 results for the Kessler surname. 
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 24 July 18 06:04 BST (UK)
How is it that you know her date and place of birth but not her first name?  :-\

Do you have your grandmother's birth certificate which may(?) give her mother's full name?

Presumably Kessler her maiden rather than married surname? (just checking ...)
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Peonie on Tuesday 24 July 18 09:11 BST (UK)
There are a more places called Osterode, but the Harz is a medium mountain range in Lower Saxony (Niedersachsen).

Regards Peonie
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Tuesday 24 July 18 21:24 BST (UK)
There are a more places called link=topic=797275.msg6542768#msg6542768 date=1532387599]
Osterode Harz is in Prussia and I see on this familysearch webpage:-

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Prussia,_West_Prussia,_and_East_Prussia_Online_Genealogy_Records

it states the genealogy website "my heritage" has a database of some online west Prussian church books.

url link

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mee/

I see there are over 400 results for the Kessler surname.
.....thankyou i will search through this ...
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Tuesday 24 July 18 21:31 BST (UK)
How is it that you know her date and place of birth but not her first name?  :-\

Do you have your grandmother's birth certificate which may(?) give her mother's full name?

Presumably Kessler her maiden rather than married surname? (just checking ...)
thankyou for reply.. i only have a photo with those details..
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Tuesday 24 July 18 21:33 BST (UK)
How is it that you know her date and place of birth but not her first name?  :-\

Do you have your grandmother's birth certificate which may(?) give her mother's full name?

Presumably Kessler her maiden rather than married surname? (just checking ...)
thankyou for reply.. i only have a photo with those details..
ommer . Which is grandmother.. and initial f kessler..
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Peonie on Wednesday 25 July 18 06:04 BST (UK)
I think you misunderstood my posting. If your Great grandmother was born in Osterode Harz (Niedersachsen) there is no use looking for her in Osterode Ostpreussen.

Regards Peonie
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Rena on Wednesday 25 July 18 15:31 BST (UK)
I think you misunderstood my posting. If your Great grandmother was born in Osterode Harz (Niedersachsen) there is no use looking for her in Osterode Ostpreussen.

Regards Peonie

I know Osterode is in Neidersachsen but I do recall that back in the time of Bismark and conflict the USA was quick to acknowlege that immigrants to their country were from "Prussia" and I'm assuming that as familysearch is in the USA it is using old fashioned historical terms.

There's a portal here for more research:-

https://www.archion.de/de/archive-in-archion/niedersachsen/landeskirchliches-archiv-der-ev-luth-kirche-in-braunschweig/
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Wednesday 25 July 18 18:53 BST (UK)
I think you misunderstood my posting. If your Great grandmother was born in Osterode Harz (Niedersachsen) there is no use looking for her in Osterode Ostpreussen.

Regards Peonie

I know Osterode is in Neidersachsen but I do recall that back in the time of Bismark and conflict the USA was quick to acknowlege that immigrants to their country were from "Prussia" and I'm assuming that as familysearch is in the USA it is using old fashioned historical terms.

There's a portal here for more research:-

https://www.archion.de/de/archive-in-archion/niedersachsen/landeskirchliches-archiv-der-ev-luth-kirche-in-braunschweig/
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Wednesday 25 July 18 19:03 BST (UK)
I think you misunderstood my posting. If your Great grandmother was born in Osterode Harz (Niedersachsen) there is no use looking for her in Osterode Ostpreussen.

Regards Peonie
,................ 
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Wednesday 25 July 18 19:12 BST (UK)
    i only have a photo in connection with this side of family, the details i have are written by hand , which is why i know the birth date, unfortunately she has only given her initial f kessler.   then osterode and again some initails or maybe it is a name, i cant see exactly but it looks like oftpw  the letters o and t are clear,, any ideas. thankyou
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Wednesday 25 July 18 19:13 BST (UK)
    i only have a photo in connection with this side of family, the details i have are written by hand , on back of photo...which is why i know the birth date, unfortunately she has only given her initial f kessler.   then osterode and again some initails or maybe it is a name, i cant see exactly but it looks like oftpw  the letters o and t are clear,, any ideas. thankyou
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Rena on Wednesday 25 July 18 20:34 BST (UK)
When people migrate they often knew somebody who had already settled in the new country and you'll find pockets of similar nationality citizens eventually organised a church for themselves.  I suspect you live in Canada. I don't know about Catholic churches but the Hanover Ev. Lutheran church records are excellent.  Have you found any Canadian Ev. Lutheran church records of the descendants of F Kessler, or the church record of her death, the latter should show the names of her parents.
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: jorose on Wednesday 25 July 18 21:45 BST (UK)
Who did F kessler marry?
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Wednesday 25 July 18 22:13 BST (UK)
there is no connection to canada ,,, and i have no details who she married, she was grandmother to my father, who emigrated to uk,  there was no family contact, just  the photo , so thats all info i have
 i looked on ancestry but cant find census for kessler osterode  ,thankyou 
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Rena on Wednesday 25 July 18 23:03 BST (UK)
there is no connection to canada ,,, and i have no details who she married, she was grandmother to my father, who emigrated to uk,  there was no family contact, just  the photo , so thats all info i have
 i looked on ancestry but cant find census for kessler osterode  ,thankyou

Surfing the web shows that there are five churches in Osterode. Have you contacted your local Church of Latter Day Saints FHS to ask if they have a/any film(s) you can view?

The safest method of tracing ancestors is to work backwards generation by generation finding birth/baptism; marriage and death records.  It would assist if you knew the first one or two names given by the witnesses at the baptism of F. Kessler, which would eliminate any other F. Kessler baptised on the same date.

This familysearch webpage sets out why the record you want is not yet online.  One overriding reason why some records will never be available is that they were destroyed during the war.

https://www.familysearch.org/ask/faq#overview
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 25 July 18 23:25 BST (UK)


Do you have your grandmother's birth certificate which may(?) give her mother's full name?



Where was your grandmother born? If I were you I would be looking for her birth certificate. Birth certificates generally give both mother and father's names.

If the family moved to the UK, depending on dates, have you checked the censuses?

Re reading, I think I may have misunderstood. Can I confirm? ....
F. Kessler is your father's grandmother?
It was only your father who moved to the UK?  :-\

Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Peonie on Thursday 26 July 18 10:31 BST (UK)
My English must be absolutely lousy.
There are two places called Osterode, one am Harz, the other one in Eastprussia. In 1900 both of them in Prussia. Where  did you get Harz from?
In your later Post you say there are the letters oftpw after the name. When you check out Sütterlin Schrift you‘ll see the letters say ostpr (Eastprussia)
Regards Peonie
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Rena on Thursday 26 July 18 11:42 BST (UK)
My English must be absolutely lousy.
There are two places called Osterode, one am Harz, the other one in Eastprussia. In 1900 both of them in Prussia. Where  did you get Harz from?
In your later Post you say there are the letters oftpw after the name. When you check out Sütterlin Schrift you‘ll see the letters say ostpr (Eastprussia)
Regards Peonie

Peonie,  my history with mainland Europe ended in the 1860s at a time when there were several little states, princedoms and the Kingdom of Hanover.   These little countries were merged when Prussia and Austria insisted on there being one Germanic State (actually Prussia's army marched into the Kingdom of Hanover).  The USA acknowledged the new large Republic as "Prussia" but it took GB quite a while to recognise the Republic as "Germany".  As for "Osterode Am Harz" - it looks to me as though that was a "newly" organised civil district where the land around Osterode came under one civil authority and as you say, it's part of Niedersachsen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osterode_(district)
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Berlin-Bob on Thursday 26 July 18 14:37 BST (UK)
Just to be absolutely clear, there are definitely two places called Osterode,

(As a tip for anybody seeking places in Germany, Prussia, etc,)
click on
http://gov.genealogy.net/search/name (http://gov.genealogy.net/search/name) and enter "Ortsname" (Place name)
If you enter Osterode you will see a map showing both locations, with a list of contexts for this name

- one is the Osterode, Harz, http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/OSTODEJO51DR (http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/OSTODEJO51DR)

- the other is in what was then Germany (East Prussia) and is now in present day Poland
http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/object_190244 (http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/object_190244)

The links are all to a german site GOV - Geschichtliche Orts-verzeichnis (Historical Place Directory),
which shows where places names can be found (and in which context : parish, town, bishopric, admin-district, etc.), and where they "belonged" at different times.

regards,
Bob

ps. I used to visit a customer in Osterode, Harz, so I definitely know where that one is ! :)
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Berlin-Bob on Thursday 26 July 18 15:14 BST (UK)
Some locations in Eastern and Central Europe "changed hands" so often, that they could have been labelled as being in Germany / Prussia / Poland / Austro-Hungarian-Empire at different times.
 
Quote
In your later Post you say there are the letters oftpw after the name. When you check out Sütterlin Schrift you‘ll see the letters say ostpr (Eastprussia)
So you are most likely looking for the second link

Quote
i looked on ancestry but cant find census for kessler osterode
There were very few censuses in Germany / Prussia / Poland / Austro-Hungarian-Empire.
Certainly none of this "every ten years", as in USA, UK, Ireland and some other places
(we don't realise how spoilt we are, until we start looking outside these "regular census" countries :) )

regards,
Bob
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: Rena on Thursday 26 July 18 19:09 BST (UK)
Some locations in Eastern and Central Europe "changed hands" so often, that they could have been labelled as being in Germany / Prussia / Poland / Austro-Hungarian-Empire at different times.
 
Quote
In your later Post you say there are the letters oftpw after the name. When you check out Sütterlin Schrift you‘ll see the letters say ostpr (Eastprussia)
So you are most likely looking for the second link

Quote
i looked on ancestry but cant find census for kessler osterode
There were very few censuses in Germany / Prussia / Poland / Austro-Hungarian-Empire.
Certainly none of this "every ten years", as in USA, UK, Ireland and some other places
(we don't realise how spoilt we are, until we start looking outside these "regular census" countries :) )

regards,
Bob

Whilst I was researching my family I found that Napoleon's reign early 1800s set up a regular six monthly "buildings and people count" on 30th June and 31st December  After a few decades names of ordinary people started to be listed.  You could be lucky and find some.  I've attached a copy of part of a people count of Strasse 88, Salzgitter taken on 31st December 1852 when my gt.grandfather's Aunt Charlotte was six years old.  The several columns were for quick calculations, e.g. to separate children from adults and males from females and a column for religion.
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Thursday 26 July 18 22:41 BST (UK)


Do you have your grandmother's birth certificate which may(?) give her mother's full name?



Where was your grandmother born? If I were you I would be looking for her birth certificate. Birth certificates generally give both mother and father's names.

If the family moved to the UK, depending on dates, have you checked the censuses?

Re reading, I think I may have misunderstood. Can I confirm? ....
F. Kessler is your father's grandmother?
It was only your father who moved to the UK?  :-\
yes it was only him
Title: Re: German grandmother
Post by: smayne on Thursday 26 July 18 22:46 BST (UK)
Some locations in Eastern and Central Europe "changed hands" so often, that they could have been labelled as being in Germany / Prussia / Poland / Austro-Hungarian-Empire at different times.
 
Quote
In your later Post you say there are the letters oftpw after the name. When you check out Sütterlin Schrift you‘ll see the letters say ostpr (Eastprussia)
So you are most likely looking for the second link

Quote
i looked on ancestry but cant find census for kessler osterode
There were very few censuses in Germany / Prussia / Poland / Austro-Hungarian-Empire.
Certainly none of this "every ten years", as in USA, UK, Ireland and some other places
(we don't realise how spoilt we are, until we start looking outside these "regular census" countries :) )

regards,
Bob
thankyou that looks right.. so will check east prussia

Whilst I was researching my family I found that Napoleon's reign early 1800s set up a regular six monthly "buildings and people count" on 30th June and 31st December  After a few decades names of ordinary people started to be listed.  You could be lucky and find some.  I've attached a copy of part of a people count of Strasse 88, Salzgitter taken on 31st December 1852 when my gt.grandfather's Aunt Charlotte was six years old.  The several columns were for quick calculations, e.g. to separate children from adults and males from females and a column for religion.