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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: louisa maud on Thursday 19 July 18 12:13 BST (UK)
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Recently someone mentioned a relative of theirs walked away from the church before signing the marriage register and wondered if it was or at what point was legal
I have asked a person very knowledgeable about church matters, apparently when the priest says
"let no one put a sunder" is where it becomes legal I think, signing of the register is just a formality
anyway they were married before the signing
Louisa Maud
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Good question, what jurisdiction, and what era...
In NSW Australia if married in a church ceremony, then there's two parts of that ceremony that run concurrently. There's the church service and the civil service. The marriage is not legal until the paperwork is lodged with the NSW BDM from a civil/statute law position, but from a church position, well ... that depends on the denomination and era. If married recently, ie post 1961, in any jurisdiction in Australia, then the harmonised statute law of the Commonwealth would prevail.
JM
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This was the thread - a C of E marriage in England in 1882 between William Sixton and Eliza Ann Percy, where an annotation to the parish register states that the parties “left church without signing” (although the minister did sign the register, it is not signed by the parties or any witnesses):
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=796835.18
The marriage (if it was a marriage) didn’t make it into the GRO index.
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Yes, that was the thread
Louisa Maud
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My gut feeling would be that it would be legal, according to UK law, when the register was signed and witnessed. Canonical law would make it legal when they were pronounce man and wife.
I think this is one for Stan :)
Gadget
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I have a marriage certificate from 1843 that is not signed by the bride or groom but is signed by the witnesses and the curate. I ordered it from the GRO who on finding the absence of the two signatures contacted the Fakenham Registrar's Office to ascertain if the original had the two missing signatures. It did not. However it was the view of the GRO and the Fakenham RO office that the marriage was legal and complete despite the two missing signatures.
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Here's a current thread, still unresolved issue from NSW Australia ... parish register shows the couple did not turn up, but NSW BDM has the marriage indexed at their online index and the parish register image is digitised and available via Ancestry dot com dot au
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=794238.0
JM
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As a registrar our guidance was that it is at the point where the parties have made the two required legal vows (declaratory and contracting) in front of witnesses.
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:) yes, AntonyMMM my NSW BDM rellies agree with you ! and are fascinated that their own index shows that a marriage has been registered although the parish register says the couple did not show up... on the other hand ... my NSW CofE clergy says (these old chaps are first cousins to each other and good friends) ... no show means no marriage...
Of course, Louise Maud's question will be fascinating for my rellies... hence I have posted here ! Hopefully not too much off topic... :)
JM
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In a Church of England Service it is surely legal when the officiating minister says "I therefore proclaim that they are husband and wife."
The wording Depends on the year of the marriage service, but the present one is
In the presence of God, and before this congregation,
N and N have given their consent
and made their marriage vows to each other.
They have declared their marriage by the joining of hands
and by the giving and receiving of rings.
I therefore proclaim that they are husband and wife.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mdu/
Although the law requires that the Registers are filled in immediately after the solemnization of a marriage. This may take place either after the Proclamation or at the end of the service.
Stan
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As we have some of our Australian friends participating is it legal to get married in a Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Australia? In the Mother Country it is not legal.
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The contract is made when each of the parties says the correct vows in the hearing of the witnesses. So if one then drops dead before anything is signed it's still legal. That's what the witnesses are there for - to hear the vows and if necessary to swear that they did so.
By the way, I think I'm correct in saying that Civil Partnerships require no vows; the contract is made when the parties sign the paperwork in the presence of the witnesses.
Melbell
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As we have some of our Australian friends participating is it legal to get married in a Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Australia? In the Mother Country it is not legal.
Here's the 1961 Marriage Act :) as at 2016
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2016C00938
plus
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017A00129 (26) (Royal Assent 8 December 2017)
JM
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As soon as the chicken and beer gets turned on
;D :D
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It was me who started this initially, it has been very interesting to read it
Thank you all
Louisa Maud
Considering this closed now