RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Melbell on Thursday 21 June 18 09:59 BST (UK)
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Brickwall or brickwall?
It seems to me that this shorthand for a very difficult FH research problem has recently become trendy and much over-used.
I have been researching for nearly 40 years (multiple lines) yet I would claim to have only, perhaps, half a dozen brickwalls.
I have seen queries from people (not on RC necessarily) wailing about a brickwall because, for example, they can't find a birth certificate for an ancestor born in 1790!!!
Perhaps there should be another term for this sort of thing - 'a low fence' or some such??
Melbell ::)
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I think I definitely have a brick wall, Margaret Church, so named because she was found as a baby by the vicar of St Margaret's Church and named accordingly! Not much chance of finding her parents. :-(
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I think I definitely have a brick wall, Margaret Church, so named because she was found as a baby by the vicar of St Margaret's Church and named accordingly! Not much chance of finding her parents. :-(
;D ;D ;D ;D I would say that was an impassible barrier rather than a brickwall, which you can climb over, dig under, go round or smash down
I have seen queries from people (not on RC necessarily) wailing about a brickwall because, for example, they can't find a birth certificate for an ancestor born in 1790!!!
It is a brickwall, for them and often their lack of research skills or knowing what records are available for which dates in various countries...and for some if it doesn't tell them online it doesn't exist ::)
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FWIW, I agree with all of the above comments. Yes, I think '... hit a brick wall" has become part of our common vocabulary for describing a research challenge for which we've not yet found a breakthrough. Yes, it's probably overused, and yes, I'm sure the expression is relative to the research skills, knowledge, access to information, time available, etc. of the researcher.
From my general life experience, I've found that people differ in their determination, perseverance and flexibility in solving problems. In other words, some people tend to give up (brick wall!) earlier than others who just grit their teeth (even more :) ) and may (perhaps, eventually) find different resources and approaches or just give up later in the process.
I don't have many research skills or knowledge but I try to avoid the term 'brick wall" and just ask for help, tips and advice. Up to now, Rootschatters have helped me to make 'breakthroughs' (for which I'm very grateful!). I also realise that reading up or following courses would help me in doing research. I haven't done much new research in years and in that time I've focused on applying Genealogy standards and good practices to the records I'd previously researched. I've also taken (local) control of my records/media rather than having everything on-line.
So even if 'brick wall" is perhaps over-used, I do think it's a genuine expression that the Rootschat member wants help. In terms of language. "Brick Wall" is the syntax whereas "I need help" is the meaning (semantic).
If I could add just one point, it would be that I'd prefer to see experienced members teach less experienced members the process of (and resources for) how to break through their 'brick walls" rather than just providing them with the information they want to find. I'm sure many members do this but there's always the temptation to 'look it up' and post the results (with source).
Mike
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Mike
Thanks for your balanced and sensible comments. As I said, I wasn't really referring to Rootschatters in my first post. I just wondered what others felt about the expression and how it was used.
Melbell
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If I could add just one point, it would be that I'd prefer to see experienced members teach less experienced members the process of (and resources for) how to break through their 'brick walls" rather than just providing them with the information they want to find. I'm sure many members do this but there's always the temptation to 'look it up' and post the results (with source).
Interesting point! I personally don't as I feel it could be taken as being condescending, however regardless of how experienced or not we are, we can all learn from each other, information is often found via a simply solution, fresh eyes, no emotion ( and we all hold emotion about 'our' ancestors which can be a barrier in itself)
As brilliant as the internet is I also think it produces lots of brick walls/barriers and there are many people out there who have splendid trees of 'their ancestors' when in reality the only tool they used was the internet to 'find them' and if they really researched many would find they have splendid trees of unrelated names only
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My what one might call "brickwall" moments tend to have been related to Ireland - they are known to me either as "Before they emerged, dripping wet, from the Irish sea in Liverpool" or "Lost in the bogs of Ireland". Neither of these being as easy to get through as a nice dry, clean brick wall, in my opinion.
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My what one might call "brickwall" moments tend to have been related to Ireland - they are known to me either as "Before they emerged, dripping wet, from the Irish sea in Liverpool" or "Lost in the bogs of Ireland". Neither of these being as easy to get through as a nice dry, clean brick wall, in my opinion.
That describes Bryan's paternal line to a tee :'( :'( :'( :'(
Whereas some of my paternal lines vanished into the mists of the Scottish Highlands. :'( :'( :'( :-\
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Perhaps use of the word "brickwall" should have a time constraint? Only to be used after, say, 1,000 hours of intense research. That's about 3 hours a day for a year.
Martin
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It seems to be a term first used by professional genealogists to advertise their expertise. It is convenient shorthand to convey that if you have reached the limits of your genealogical knowledge we can help you. It has got overused due the Internet and yes sometimes one has to smile at the pleas of someone who has not really bothered to learn the basics even though the Internet is full of "how to" information.
Sometimes researchers have diligently built their own brick walls because they are emotionally invested in family stories and not open to other interpretations of the data.
However, I have to agree with with ggrocott that a foundling left in the church porch with no information pinned to their swaddling clothes is a true Brick Wall. Such children were left without a name except that provided by the parish. Many did not survive. Reading any London parish baptism / burials records will attest to that. Some were left at the Foundling Hospital, often by their parents. But that was a tiny proportion.
I have a foundling in my tree. She is my 4 X great grandmother and I don't even have a baptism for her. A Dade type register for her daughter mentions her grandparents are unknown as her mother was a foundling. All the climbing, digging or smashing in the world is not going to sort that one out even if I eventually find a baptism. Not sure even a DNA test would help.
Venelow
Canada
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Sadly all genealogists have brickwalls or else we would all have a family tree back to the caveman!
There are ways round or over some walls. Like researching spousal lines or other sibling branches to expand your clue pool. Or spending lots of coin with professionals to dig deeper. Part of the fun or the enjoyment of the journey is to find it yourself with like minded people. All of my trees are brickwalls now. This does not mean that i have stopped digging. Example one - My Gilbert lines stops at William Gilbert circa 1757 at Shirehampton. But my DNA tree - recently tested - starts about 1300 and is now to about 1650. One of the challenges is to match the DNA tree to the known paper trail. Example two - George Patullo of St. Madoes circa 1760 - There are 5 possible George Patullo's in the same area with further generations attached. But finding the link to "OUR" George is proving difficult.
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I am guilty of using this term too much in the past.
When I started my family history in 2008 I was 15 and after about 2 years of research I though I had pretty much gone back as far as I could and any lines that were difficult I labelled "brick walls" and had no hope in breaking them.
My family history was interrupted by exams and university for a few years and I only started to get back into researching my family tree again in 2016 aged 23. I started from scratch, not trusting the research of my 15-17 year old self. The difference in how I approached everything surprised even myself.
I was a LOT more careful, not falling into the traps I had done before. Dozens of ancestors were trimmed from the tree but dozens more were added. "Brick walls" I previously had came tumbling down all around me. Ancestors I had given up hope of ever finding anything about were suddenly enlightened by me simply tweaking a census search form or tweaking the surname variation in a parish record search.
They still fall every day. If I sit at my desk and decide I am going to try and discover a new ancestor, with the right amount of time and effort, I usually can.
I don't believe in brick walls anymore, they're just locked doors!
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Hi Knight-Sunderland
I like your term 'locked doors' and the whole more positive attitude it conveys, rather than 'brick walls'. I shall try to think of mine in that way from now on - thank you.
By the way, I don't think anyone should feel guilty for using the term.
Cheers,
Melbell
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Well I recently demolished a brick wall with my Mary Pratt born c1760. Born in Tannington, Suffolk daughter of Philip Pratt and Susan (Whistlecraft) Pratt. The surname Whistlecraft is a rare name and quite colourful. Susan was born c1735 I think if she wed in 1756. Gives me a new line to discover.
I say "brickwall" rather than "barrier to be broken down". Unfortunately with some ancestors, we will probably hit a permanent brickwall. But you never know that you could descend from some very colourful ancestors before the "brickwall" ancestor. You may find a John Smith born c1750 in Suffolk for example whose grandfather was a top doctor who travelled the world.
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Hi Knight-Sunderland
I like your term 'locked doors' and the whole more positive attitude it conveys, rather than 'brick walls'. I shall try to think of mine in that way from now on - thank you.
By the way, I don't think anyone should feel guilty for using the term.
Cheers,
Melbell
This is how I’m going to think of mine as well! I started doing my family tree in my early teens and definitely fell into the trap of thinking “I’ve hit a brick wall, okay, I guess I can’t go further” and put it completely out of mind. It’s only now as I’m redoing my tree to make up for young!me’s mistakes (oh me of the past, you should have listened to teachers more! cite your sources!) that I’m trying to have a more positive attitude towards it. I accept there might be some things I’ll never have the answer to, but that won’t stop me from giving it a good try!
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Reality is no one has to feel guilty saying 'brick wall' it is just a term and everyone understands exactly what it means.... as with any terminology it can mean a bigger brick wall than someone elses, but to all it means you are 'stuck' and are not sure what to do , where to look next.
'Brick walls' in the main can be climbed over, knocked down, walked around or dug under, so the terminology is perfect and over, under, round or knocked down is exactly what other researchers do when they help/suggest