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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Ausigeni on Friday 15 June 18 11:34 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I need some advice please. I took a 23andme test in January and matched with lots of distant maternal relatives but no one remotely related to my Paternal tree. In amongst all this I have several matches ranging from 80cm through to 255cm that don't fit my maternal or my paternal tree! And the 255cm lady isn't talking.
Instead of panicking and thinking that I was someone else's kid I ordered an Ancestry kit because I thought that it would match me with other people's trees. Again I got easy maternal matches (I have two XXs, go figure) but nothing remotely paternal. Non of my matches had any relation to my father's family tree.
I am now resigned to the fact that there is a major discrepancy here, (namely me), and so I have been working to build my tree on Ancestry. I've gone from 300 people to almost 3000 and I'm yet to get a clear match out of that. I had one bad match that linked me to my Uncle's family tree and the trees of my DNA matches have all the same the names as his but still no smoking gun.
So many of my matches now are from my birthplace in West Yorkshire, all linking to old West Yorkshire families and none at all linking to my Dad's Lancashire heritage or names. You would think this would make things easier but it doesn't as nearly all the names I'm dealing with are common names that lots of people share in West Yorkshire.
After building another tree, I've hit information overload and don't know what to do next.
I'm considering resorting to using GWorks. Has anyone used this and did it work?
Any suggestions much appreciated!
P
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First of all, don't panic.
I found no matches on my father's side at first, then a few trickled in. Then a probable match with someone, MRCA over two hundred years ago.
When my paternal first cousin also tested, I also matched with her.
This may or may not be the same outcome for you. Have you any paternal first or second cousins who would be willing to test?
If not, it might be a case of wait and see what happens, try to work out how your closest matches connect.
Regards Margaret
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I've had several matches from both of my grandfathers - but nothing at all at first from either of my grandmother's! I've now got one or two possibles. Which is all very weird.
Particularly my paternal grandmother, who came from London, hundreds of miles away from the rest of the family, and whose mother came from Oxfordshire, where I have no matches at all, not even a possible! I do know I'm her grand-daughter - I have her very peculiar coloured (greeny grey-hazel) short sighted eyes, as had my father. But the lack of matches is very odd!
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Have you considered uploading to FamilyTreeDNA, MyHeritage and Gedmatch?
One of my parents had no recognisable paternal matches until I uploaded their DNA to another database.
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Update.
In an effort to understand the "bad match" from Ancestry I deleted my Dad in the family tree and inserted the name of my Uncle. I then built my Uncle's family tree out from there.
In the last two days I have managed to validate matches to two third to fourth cousins and one fifth cousin using my uncle's family tree. Literally Ancestry said each of the ladies I matched should be third to fourth cousins and that is exactly what they turned out to be with the new tree.
Am I going crazy here or do you think I might have nailed it?
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I'm not sure.
I recommend you use a database with a chromosome browser. Gedmatch is particularly useful because you can also see how other people match each other.
For example if you share a segment with a known relative of your mother, and also match an unknown person at that same region but they do not match your mother, then you will know that the segment you share with the unknown person is from your father.
If any of your matches at FamilyTreeDNA are known aunts, uncles or 1st, 2nd or 3rd maternal cousins you can link them to your tree and anyone who shares the segments with you and these relatives will show as maternal relatives.
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Thanks, I did not know that about FTDNA. I have an account but I keep getting an error message every time I try to upload my Ancestry file. I might have to re-download it and try again.
As for Gedmatch, I have tried both the regular database and Genesis and I have a lot of 20cm and under matches but nothing that's going to aid my "Aha!" moment unfortunately.
I am testing another relative too, hopefully that will shed some much needed light.
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There's a fix for the Ancestry file discussed here:
http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=41783&highlight=ancestry&page=29
The tool is here:
http://www.mapmy23.com/tools/ancestry_ftdna_fix.php
If you wish you can PM me and I'd be very happy to have a look at your Gedmatch file. Do you recognise any relatives at Gedmatch at all?
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Update.
In an effort to understand the "bad match" from Ancestry I deleted my Dad in the family tree and inserted the name of my Uncle. I then built my Uncle's family tree out from there.
In the last two days I have managed to validate matches to two third to fourth cousins and one fifth cousin using my uncle's family tree. Literally Ancestry said each of the ladies I matched should be third to fourth cousins and that is exactly what they turned out to be with the new tree.
Am I going crazy here or do you think I might have nailed it?
Not sure that I fully understand you. Surely your paternal uncle's family is the same family as yours? I.e. these 3rd to 4th cousins and 5th cousin are your father's family as well as your uncle's family?
Sorry not to fully understand! ???
Regards Margaret
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No, the man I'm matching to is my maternal Aunt's husband... >:( Surprise!
If it was a paternal uncle I probably wouldn't have pinged that there was an issue.
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There's a fix for the Ancestry file discussed here:
http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=41783&highlight=ancestry&page=29
The tool is here:
http://www.mapmy23.com/tools/ancestry_ftdna_fix.php
If you wish you can PM me and I'd be very happy to have a look at your Gedmatch file. Do you recognise any relatives at Gedmatch at all?
Thank you:)
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No, the man I'm matching to is my maternal Aunt's husband... >:( Surprise!
If it was a paternal uncle I probably wouldn't have pinged that there was an issue.
In that case you are back to square one. You already have matches on your maternal side.
My advice, for what it's worth, is to stop fiddling about with your tree! :) Either matches will start trickling in or they won't. If you follow the advice already given, and nothing at all turns up, you may have to consider that the man who brought you up was not your biological father. But to me, that seems a long way into the future. Have you any closish paternal relatives who would consider testing?
Neither of my brothers or cousins wish to be tested, none of my uncles or aunts still living, unlikely to have wanted to be tested. Similar things happen in other families. So that rules out me finding any close matches. If nobody in your paternal side has been tested, no matches will appear.
The more people who get tested, the more matches for all of us, even if, as is often the case, they have no interest in genealogy.
Wait and see what happens in the next few weeks, carry on building your real tree, follow the girls as well as the boys, go sideways as well as backwards. You may come across a name you recognise.
Regards Margaret
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If no one in your father's family have been tested on Ancestry you won't get results.
My maternal side of my tree has far more ancestors on than my paternal side.
I've had one hit on my maternal grandmother's maternal side but it took me back to my 4th gt grandparents. No hits confirmed yet on my maternal grandfather's
I've had 9 confirmed on my father's side, confirming my paternal grandfather's paternal line back to 3rd gt grandparents, my paternal grandfather's mother's line and my paternal grandfather's grandmother's (my gt gt grandmother) line. Also my paternal grandmother's mother's maternal line confirmed.
Most of the hits are in America at the moment so I don't think many of my mother's family emigrated and maybe why I have been able to track so many. They stayed put far more than my paternal line.
This has taken several years - patience has been worth it as my paper trails are being confirmed.
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I had one third cousin match, she fits into his tree and the common name involved is his mother's maiden name. I have read that mothers pass down their whole X to their sons and so the X you get from your paternal side recombines less and so contains older DNA
I have checked my maternal tree and there is no one of a similar name in that tree. Out of all of the matches I've had thus far, the majority have been from that line.
Luckily for him and unfortunately for me he's dead. I'm probably going to wait for more matches to come in and keep on going, gathering more proof.
Edited for clarity.
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" I have read that mothers pass down their whole X to their sons and so the X you get from your paternal side recombines less and so contains older DNA"
We aren't talking about maternal or paternal testing at Ancestry, purely autosomal DNA, passed down by males and females in equal measure, 50:50, to their children.
Contact this possible paternal 3rd cousin, and/or build out your tree to see if you can find the definitive connection between you. Click on shared matches to see if anybody else shares DNA with the two of you. Also check out shared matches on all matches that you have not so far identified as maternal matches.
myheritageDNA automatically gives you shared matches, perhaps ask this 3rd cousin to upload there and to Gedmatch, so that you can compare with a chromosome browser.
I think you may find some definite paternal ones eventually, it is still very early days.
Regards Margaret
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I agree it's early still. I can't get a male relative to test but I'm going to get my sister to test so that I can separate out the maternal matches that we share, as if my suspicions prove correct we will probably test out as half sisters.
Thank you so much to everyone for the advice and support:)
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Methinks you may be too suspicious! Let the test speak for itself and do let us know how you get on.
Regards Margaret
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Update on my situation. I have completed an extensive mirror tree on Ancestry and have received multiple shared ancestor hints on not one but four of my Uncle's family lines.
This information has been greeted by my siblings with a good deal of scorn and skepticism, (as you might well imagine). They believe that I have somehow forced the shared ancestor hints to appear by placing my uncle's name where I did.
I have no further way to prove my suspicions, so I am in currently in the position where I will possibly have to throw my hands up and move on, and/or wait for more people to test in the future.
Thanks everyone for all of your insights and help.
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I agree it's early still. I can't get a male relative to test but I'm going to get my sister to test so that I can separate out the maternal matches that we share, as if my suspicions prove correct we will probably test out as half sisters.
Thank you so much to everyone for the advice and support:)
Has your sister agreed to testing? Doubt if her results would be back by now if she did.
I feel for you, but that is what genealogy is all about, finding your true roots. If we make a mistake further back in our trees we are usually happy enough to correct it, but being closer makes it more difficult.
It must be hard for you, but a lot of other people will be in the same situation, DNA is opening up secrets that were never intended to be discovered.
Regards Margaret
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I had the opposite plenty on my paternal side been able to confirm back to the 1780s for 3rd gt grandparents plus links to my gt gt grandmother and gt grandmother on my paternal side.
I had to wait about another couple of years before I got the link from my maternal grandmother to my 4th gt grandparents and out to their 4th gt grandson via the sister of my 3rd gt grandmother.
I have lots outstanding where we can't as yet find a link, mainly because of trees not going back far enough. 1 family from USA (3 DNA links to me) are insisting they don't have any UK/Irish links they are all mainland Europe - mine at the generation we meet at are all based in UK ;D.
You need patience, all this may mean is your father's family haven't done any DNA tests. Have you checked your father's line against other trees to see if there's a discrepancy and if so check it out to see who's wrong. We all make mistakes.
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@sugarfizzle Sister's results are not back yet.
Regarding original Dad's tree. I had that up for over six months on Ancestry waiting for any match at all. When I've had a bad day I've hitched my DNA back up to his tree to see if anything goes and just have had nothing happen. I'm not close to him, so it wasn't a huge emotional thing. Mainly just an out of the blue shock for me.
The things you learn! This will definitely be a story for the grand kids.
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You can't assume he is not your father due to a few months on a DNA site - you need his relatives to have had DNA tests and for you to be on the same site.
Unless you get a sibling and a paternal cousin to cross reference the DNA analysis you can't say he isn't your father.
You need patience, I have great sections unconfirmed by DNA after 4 years. My confirmations are part of paternal male line to 1780s, last week had confirmation of part of paternal female line. On the maternal line part of the female line to 1790s. There is absolutely nothing confirmed on the maternal paternal line as yet - AFTER 4 years.I have hundreds of links without knowing where they link.
This is not an instant answer you are reliant on other people doing the test and having correctly traced their family history.
Your expectations are far too high, come back in 4 years and let us know how your links have panned out.
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You can't assume he is not your father due to a few months on a DNA site - you need his relatives to have had DNA tests and for you to be on the same site.
Sometimes it is quite possible to come to quite accurate conclusions rather quickly, depending on who has tested. Some people are intelligent enough and analytical enough to rapidly understand it.
In this instance it does sound like the uncle's relatives have tested, and they're coming up as DNA matches which aren't explained by the papertrail. The uncle is looking like a possible candidate for the father.
The clincher would be a daughter of this man. If she wasn't a full match on the X-chromosome then it would rule him out.
I've had the opposite issue when someone who should match (about a 3rd to 4th cousin) just wasn't matching anyone he should match (there's about 20 people at Gedmatch he could match, and he wasn't matching ANY of them.... I know that only about 50% of 4th cousins will match, but the odds of matching none of them was about 0.5 to the power of 20). A couple of us had to gently try to point out that something wasn't quite adding up, but he still thought that some little pink matching segments at Gedmatch meant a match.
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Dangerous - negative - answers
I am never going to get to grips with it.. DNA
I havent got long enough brain power left.
now a nice volunteer to sort it and show me.. BUT I still cannot grasp it.
and if I then found a result as per this post then that would be the finish of me
I wish I had never done it
but promised myself I would leave it on Ancestry for 1 yr..
so far my KNOWN only nephew is a match and two Scottish people so thats good. but nothing else.. that wasnt already known.
xin
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@medpat I appreciate your good heart and I understand the need to play devil's advocate because this is the kind of situation that is life altering. However in my case it is as @hurworth said.
I have taken not one but DNA tests in the last two years. The first test (23andme) led me to the assumption that something was wrong on the paternal and the second test (Ancestry) pretty much convinced me that my first assumption was right.
In the last two years I have spent hundreds of hours building up both my Dad's tree and the mirror tree and making both as accurate as possible.
The mirror tree (Uncle's tree) so far has connected me directly to at least six, previously unexplained 3-4th cousin matches and has inspired another five shared ancestor hints via the Ancestry system. The trees of the people in those SAH cases have fully matched my uncle's tree.
I probably should also point out that nearly all of the 3-4th cousin matches are linked to lines related to my Uncle's mother on the X, so for me there was just no getting over it, I'm looking at an NPE but as previously mentioned by another poster, I'm not unique in this.
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I probably should mention the next steps involve results of sister's test and then after that I'm going to approach one of my cousins (Uncle's son) and ask them to test too.
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Hi Ausigeni,
I feel so sorry for you but what an interesting story although not the nicest & wouldn't like to be in your shoes! :(
I know zilch about DNA (or very little) but is it possible maybe one of your uncle's siblings could be the connection...just a thought but also may be easier to accept if it so turns out?
What we have to remember is, many families married into their own relations families not knowing they were related! :-\
Could one of your uncles family/siblings have married into your own family although related further back? Not sure you will understand my meaning :-\
Annie
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I probably should mention the next steps involve results of sister's test and then after that I'm going to approach one of my cousins (Uncle's son) and ask them to test too.
Would you explain why you're asking him to do the test, do you feel comfortable enough to say & what reaction do you expect from him if you're going to be upfront?
Annie
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@Rosinish
Unfortunately, there are no other siblings. I think the reason the whole process so far has gone so slow is because I don't want to upset anyone by making rash allegations that might cause them undue distress and so I've been as careful as I can be.
As I am not young, the parties involved (parents) are deceased which helps I suppose in that there isn't anyone around to take unbridled anger out on, lest it take that turn. My cousins also are ten to fifteen years older than me and really pragmatic, even tempered men and so I know when it comes down to having that awkward conversation that they will most likely be adults about it:)
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My cousins also are ten to fifteen years older than me and really pragmatic, even tempered men and so I know when it comes down to having that awkward conversation that they will most likely be adults about it:)
That's certainly a big plus for you!
Good luck with your sisters' results ;)
Annie
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Initially you don't need to voice your theories to any of your relatives who you ask to take a test. You may be wrong so is there any point "worrying" people unnecessarily?
If you feel you need to offer an explanation, we are often recommended to have near relatives tested as it can help with matches - nothing to do with suspicions over parentage.
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Very interesting post.
I think you re pragmatic too ....might your cousin be pleased if it turned out you are either a half sister or a cousin on his paternal side as well as his maternal side ....
I think it would be helpful to say 'aunts husband' because although you think of him as uncle...it would make it clear that there was no blood relation to your mother. !
How long do you have to wait for your sisters results ?
When I asked my elderly aunt to do her DNA so I could know more about my Scottishancestors I was half expecting that her match to me would only be via grandmother....my grandfather was a sailor away for long breaks & they may have had an 'open marriage'.
My father didn't look much like his grandad and first name was not following traditional naming system that all the other Scots relatives stuck to ....family joke was he was named after the milkman ....but it turns out I do have links to granddad ..also so far not found any unknown half cousins from distant lands who I cant account for ...so maybe they were actually 'exclusive' in their marriage