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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: vonni on Thursday 14 June 18 06:39 BST (UK)

Title: Place of birth from census
Post by: vonni on Thursday 14 June 18 06:39 BST (UK)
Morning,

I have an open thread in the common room about an ancestor that may have travelled from Yorkshire to London and back in the early 1800’s.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=794980.0

This is the birth location for a Mary Ann Graham (born Hodgson) from the 1951 census in Caldwell, Yorkshire.

Can anyone make out what the word is between Middlesex and London?

Thank you for any help.

BW

Vonni
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 14 June 18 08:23 BST (UK)
Town  :-\

What is the census reference so we can compare with the rest of the page
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: Karen McDonald on Thursday 14 June 18 08:56 BST (UK)
Is it perhaps simply a very twiddly "in"?  ???

I agree with Rosie - a bit more of the page for comparison would be good.

Karen
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 14 June 18 09:34 BST (UK)
I see it as an error that has been crossed and overwritten with London but, like the others, I'd like the census reference as I can't see it in a quick search  and your other thread suggests that she was in Caldwell in 1861 not 1851.

Gadget
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: vonni on Thursday 14 June 18 12:25 BST (UK)
Thank you

RG 9/3678/31 page: 14


BW

Vonni
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 14 June 18 12:49 BST (UK)
It is 1861 -RG9  ;)

The first letter is C like the C in Caldwell below

There has been an attempt to cross it out.  ;D
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 14 June 18 12:52 BST (UK)
I've just looked and I think the enumerator was about to write Yorkshire, C?? and corrected it - see the snip below

It only really reads  Middlesex London
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: vonni on Thursday 14 June 18 12:59 BST (UK)
It is 1861 -RG9  ;)

The first letter is C like the C in Caldwell below

There has been an attempt to cross it out.  ;D

I have no idea so just sent the whole reference just in case  ;D
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: vonni on Thursday 14 June 18 13:01 BST (UK)
Yes, thank you both... I can see what you mean now... almost changed yorkshire into Middlesex...
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: Enumerated on Thursday 14 June 18 13:18 BST (UK)
It says Middlesex City London. So birthplace is City of London.

The City is the oldest part of London within the city walls, often called 'the square mile'. It contains the Bank of England and the Tower of London. It is volume 1c in the bmd indexes.
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: JenB on Thursday 14 June 18 13:24 BST (UK)
I've just looked and I think the enumerator was about to write Yorkshire, C?? and corrected it - see the snip below

It only really reads  Middlesex London

I agree with Gadget and Rosie - it's clear from the snip that the enumerator originally wrote something starting with 'C' and that this has been overwritten by the word London. So it's Middlesex, London.
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: CarolA3 on Thursday 14 June 18 14:38 BST (UK)
It says Middlesex City London. So birthplace is City of London.

The City is the oldest part of London within the city walls, often called 'the square mile'. It contains the Bank of England and the Tower of London. It is volume 1c in the bmd indexes.

Surely the City of London is not, and never has been, part of the county of Middlesex?  Or indeed any other county?

As others have already explained, the place of birth in this entry is 'Middlesex, London' and the 'C....' is a partly erased mistake.

Carol
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: vonni on Thursday 14 June 18 15:28 BST (UK)
Yes, I agree they started to write Yorkshire and changed it to Middlesex and then Startedvwritinf Caldwell and changed it to London.

Thank you all for your help.  ;D

BW

Vonni
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: Enumerated on Friday 15 June 18 10:46 BST (UK)
I have seen Middlesex City London as birthplace in census returns before, which is probably why I recognise it.

London was formerly in the county of Middlesex.
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 15 June 18 11:02 BST (UK)
I don't think that it does say City.  There is certainly a C at the beginning but the rest does not look like 'ity'.  Other entries on the page for y have a long tail, there is no evidence of a tail at the end. 

If I was pushed for a translation I would say it looked more like Cove  :-\

Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: Gadget on Friday 15 June 18 11:05 BST (UK)


If I was pushed for a translation I would say it looked more like Cove  :-\

That's what I think as well, Rosie  :)
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: JenB on Friday 15 June 18 11:12 BST (UK)
I have seen Middlesex City London as birthplace in census returns before, which is probably why I recognise it.

But in this case it is clear that whatever was written that started with 'C' has been overwritten by the 'L' of London.
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: Gadget on Friday 15 June 18 12:41 BST (UK)
I agree with Jennifer and Rosie. It's clearly a clerical error and the corrected entry reads Middlesex London . Also, no way do the amended letters read City.


Gadget
Title: Re: Place of birth from census
Post by: CarolA3 on Friday 15 June 18 15:55 BST (UK)
London was formerly in the county of Middlesex.

No, the City of London was not formerly in any other county - because it is both a city and a county in its own right.  That's why it has its own Lord Mayor (not the Mayor of London) and its own police force (not the Met).

The census entry doesn't say 'City'.  It's a partly erased clerical error, as several others have said.

Carol