RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: KayeG on Monday 11 June 18 11:27 BST (UK)
-
Is anyone able to please help me find the birth of Elizabeth Crowther/s (not sure of the spelling), said to have been in Glasgow, around 1830ish?
-
Hi ,
Have you tried Familysearch or Scotlandspeople ?
Do you know the names of her parents ?
ev
-
We know nothing about her except her date of death aged 54, in Whitby. She was the wife of William Foxton & up to now officialdom recorded her maiden name as Cruddas/Cruddan/Cruthers. Now however, with the release of the mother’s maiden name, there is Crowther/s.
-
Hello,
as ev suggested www.scotlandspeople.gov Church Registers 1824 - 1845 only one Elizabeth Crowther born 27/4/1843 in Old Monkland.
Can you put in the date she died etc, in Whitby.
Cheers
-
Free BMD has her death Sept 1884 aged 53.
What was her mother's full name?
Malky
-
Thank you, Malky. We know nothing about her apart from the births of her children, her death & some colourful newspaper articles. Have never been able to find her birth, so many variations of a name.
FOXTON, JOHN CREWTHERS Order
GRO Reference: 1855 M Quarter in STOKESLEY Volume 09D Page 406
FOXTON, ISABELLA CRUTHERS Order
GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in WHITBY Volume 09D Page 378
FOXTON, MARY ANN CROWTHERS Order
GRO Reference: 1859 M Quarter in STOKESLEY Volume 09D Page 424
FOXTON, JANE CROOTHERS Order
GRO Reference: 1862 J Quarter in WHITBY Volume 09D Page 416
FOXTON, GEORGE CRUDDACE Order
GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in STOKESLEY Volume 09D Page 450 Occasional
FOXTON, ELIZABETH CROWTHERS Order
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in STOKESLEY Volume 09D Page 450
FOXTON, JOSEPH CROWTHERS Order
GRO Reference: 1869 M Quarter in STOKESLEY Volume 09D Page 484
FOXTON, MARGARET CROTHERS Order
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in STOKESLEY Volume 09D Page 501
FOXTON, ESTHER CRUDDUS Order
GRO Referenc
-
Hello Lud, thank you. I did reply to you earlier but it has vanished. I have spent hours in the RO in Edinburgh but could find no birth for Elizabeth. The correct name would be a big help. She died in Whitby in 1884.
-
said to have been in Glasgow, around 1830ish?
Can you please explain where the info. came from?
Who is her father on her marriage?
Do you have her on any census which state where born?
Annie
-
Hello Rosenish, the ‘Born in Glasgow’ is from census entries but who knows if it is correct? However, according to a court case report, she was adamant that she was Scottish.
-
Where did she marry, if unknown what was her husbands' name?
Annie
-
‘Born in Glasgow’ is from census entries but who knows if it is correct?
What age is she on each census balanced with age on death to give us an average yr of birth please?
Annie
-
Hi Annie, have never been able to find a record of a marriage but she & William Foxton were together long term.
Re her age on census entries, my papers are out of reach but from memory the given ages tallied with an 1830ish birth.
-
From the census's 1871, Glasgow, Scotland 1833. 1881, Scotland, 1884.
Malky
-
The census reports for Stokesly & Whitby Malky. She had lived in that area from at least her teens.
-
The census reports for Stokesly (1871) & Whitby (1881)
There is a claim that the marriage took place in 1859 Yorkshire, but I cannot find it. Neither can I find them in the 1861 census. I have found William with his grandson in 1891.
Malky.
-
Hmm, a long way off on areas but looks like she may have been a bit of a 'tearaway' from childhood if this is her?
freecen.org
1841
CROWTHER Elizabeth 10 Prisoner Outside Census County
Piece: HO107/867 Place Thurgaton -Nottinghamshire
EDistrict 06
Parish Southwell
Folio 41 Page 1
Address - House Of Correction
Annie
-
That’s the same problems we’ve encountered Malky. I’ve been trying to find this woman for over 30 years. X
-
Wow Annie! Does ‘10’ mean her age? That would fit. How can I find out more? X
-
Or, is this her?
1841
Piece SCT1841/652
Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
EDistrict 14A
Parish Old Monkland
Folio15 Page15
Address - Calder Bank
Crowther all b England
George 35 Merchant Iron Roller
Sarah 35
Jonah 13
Eliza 8
John 6
Sarah 3
Frances 1
John 38 Merchant Iron Roller
Annie
Just read your message, not sure yet & not sure which could be her?
-
Possible Bap?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL35-64TG
Questionable as she doesn't call any of her children after mother Sarah but they may have not been on talking terms?
Annie
-
Oh dear Annie, I haven’t a clue! Does that mean they were all born in England? I need to google Merchant Iron Roller.
-
Well Annie, every day’s a school day, I now know about iron rolling. How can I find out more about the ‘tearaway’? X
-
Wow Annie! Does ‘10’ mean her age? That would fit.
Yes, sorry, age & re the following census they were all born England although living in Lanarkshire.
(Very unique to have a PoB on an 1841 census rather than 'Outside County')?
I'm wondering if Elizabeth is the one in Prison, did her father include her on the form whether in error or just didn't understand it was only people actually in the household rather than part of the household?
Annie
-
Or perhaps the one in prison is from a different Crowther family? Is there a way to access more information on the prisoner? X
-
Or perhaps the one in prison is from a different Crowther family? Is there a way to access more information on the prisoner? X
No records seem to exist "but court and petty session records may show if any of your relatives were inmates here"...
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NTT/Southwell#Correctional
Annie
-
Thank you Annie, I’ve emailed the Local History Society to ask if they have any information on prisoners at that time.
On that subject, I met an Australian lady a few years ago whose ancestor had been deported as a youngster because ‘he looked as though he would commit a crime’. X
-
I’ve emailed the Local History Society to ask if they have any information on prisoners at that time.
Let's hope they're of some help! ?
Annie
Add, Ooops, yes, I ve seen some strange cases for theft etc. over the yrs e.g. maybe stealing turnips or similar? ;)
-
This may be the first son's birth registration:
CROTHERS, WILLIAM
No mother's maiden surname
GRO Reference: 1853 M Quarter in WHITBY Volume 09D Page 362
Perhaps there might be an address on that certificate which can be explored.
These are the only baptisms I can see in Scotland.
24/01/1830
CARRUTH, ELIZABETH
ARCHIBALD CARRUTH & ISABELLA THOMSON
FR802
644/2
40 211
Gorbals
19/10/1828
CURRUTH, ELIZABETH
WILLIAM CURRUTH & JEAN BAIRD
FR788
644/2
40 183
Gorbals
07/08/1826
CARRUTH, ELIZABETH
JAMES CARRUTH & ISABEL KNOX
FR964
475/
40 100
Campsie
(this last one's siblings were born in Glasgow so she may have thought she was as well)
I searched for Eli*abeth C*r*th*
Debra :)
-
Thank you so much, Debra. I’ll check on that certificate& keep my fingers crossed. She’s has been elusive, to put it mildly. X
-
Hi KayeG,
There are a couple of trees on Ancestry with Elizabeth and her surname spelt as CARUTHERS, married to a William Foxton. ScotlandsPeople shows a birth for an Elizabeth Caruthers in 1835 although this is in Minnigaff, Dumfries & Galloway rather than Glasgow as stated in the 1871 England census. Parents are listed as George Caruthers and Elizabeth Drysdale, both christian names of two of her children.
May not be the same Elizabeth but certainly another possibility!
Regards,
Andrea
-
Hi Annie, no further forward re her ID but received this from LHS.
“I have found Elizabeth Crowther in the 1841 census and she is indeed aged 10 and an inmate at the house of correction. I attach the census extract. Her name appears about half way down the right column. You can also see the names of prison officers in the left column.
I have regional prison inspectors' reports for 1840 and 1842 - there was no inspection in 1841. These give a great deal of information about the nature of the prison at the time but do not give rolls of prisoner names. There are surgeon and chaplain reports which mention individual inmates with noteworthy issues. In this era the inmates in question are identified by their initials, but I can see nothing in respect of E.C.
In an inspector's listing of 1845 there is a reference to Elizabeth C, age 16, single, committed on 31 Oct 1845 for stealing 1 sovereign. Her instruction (presumably meaning education) is described as 'imperfect'. There is a slight discrepancy with the age, but this could be the same person, and if so she would be a repeat offender.
I have little else to look at. Depending on what you want to know, I have a considerable amount of information about the nature of the prison in this era including, diet, architecture, the Silence System etc. Please let me know.
-
Hi Kaye, Such a pity there's not enough evidence of EC being yours but I would certainly put her in the 'very possible' category ;)
It may be an idea to do a wee timeline of events in order dates/places to see what else we could look at, including dates you have for newpaper items about her?
I may have missed it while scrolling back but am I correct in thinking you don't have her in 1851?
Annie
-
She’s AWOL in 1851 Annie. X
-
Unfortunately, there is no Father’s name, mother’s surname or an address on what may be son William’s BC.
-
Ok, when you do your timeline you can add yrs 1851 (not found) & same for 1861 & for Williams' birth (not proven) as it keeps everything in date/place order for people to see what's found & what's still to be searched?
Annie