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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Tomster on Friday 08 June 18 18:49 BST (UK)
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Jessie is my great grandmother. She was apparently born November 9 1866 in Sydenham, Surrey, England. She had a son (Herbert b July 8 1890) in Leeds, England and a daughter (Doris b Jan 1 1892 - can't find any paper trail for this event but also in Leeds.) Jessie lived with my great grand father John Manley (not married but they passed themselves off as married in 1891 UK Census). Herbert was baptized February 8, 1891 under the surname Manley (misspelled as Mauley) at St. Peter's Church (St. Aidans). John and Jessie came to Canada with Doris and Herbert in February 1893. John eventually and secretively returned to England in about 1902/03 leaving Jessie with 3 children on her own. In various docs, Jessie has reported her maiden name as Bennett (marriage to George Fisher in York, Canada), Richards, or Richardson (Herbert's wife on Herbert's death certificate) . We don't know which is the right one or anything about who her parents/family were. It would be very much appreciated if someone could find the real story. Many thanks, Tom
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Have you found a birth registration for Herbert?
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Hi Tom,
Just adding your previous post on the Canadian board.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=717598.0
DB
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Am looking but just noting this one having looked at the tree
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XSZ-SSL
on checking the GRO, MMN is Wilshin...Jessie Frances
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There seem to be some references on the other thread to Jessie having had sisters, though I am not tempted to trawl through 17 pages to find out details.
It also appears from the first page or two of that thread that Jessie used the name Jeanette while in Canada - is that right?
It would be helpful if anything of that nature already known about Jessie could be summarised by Tomster for the benefit of those trying to help here.
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Family folklore is that Jessie had sisters. Possibly two or three. Also, Jessie went by Jeanette sometimes. We have no record of Herbert's birth, only his baptism. Kind of hoping that St Aidan's church may have recorded somewhere more information than that of the baptism record. I have tried to contact the church, but to no avail. No record of Doris' birth either, not even a baptism. Doris however was less than a year old when Jessie and John left for Canada. Jessie was also pregnant with another child (Edgar, my grandfather) so may not have had time or strength to pursue a baptism for Doris.
Based on what Herbert's wife wrote on Herbert's Death Certificate (i.e., Jessie's last name Richardson) I have followed some extensive leads through Richardson/Wilshin down to present generations. However DNA tests do not support a relationship, so back to the beginning of trying find an alternative and plausible paper trail.
Tom
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Have been looking for ages and only thing I want to run by you is a marriage
Jennett Richards Q2 1862 Islington 1B/707
I am stuggling to find who she married, in case it's worth pursuing
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I’m not seeing that marriage registration at all ???
The page number looks too high for Islington, which should be in the 200s to 400s range.
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I’m not seeing that marriage registration at all ???
The page number looks too high for Islington, which should be in the 200s to 400s range.
Now found the transcription on FindMyPast but it looks like a mistranscription of the underlying (very faint) page, which appears to show the relevant Jennet Richards marriage in Neath district.
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Yes, looks like John Richards Islington :(
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FreeBMD has it as Jennet Richards, Jun qtr 1862 Neath 11a 568.
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FreeBMD’s image is much better quality - John Richards in Dolgelly 11b 707 followed by Jennet Richards in Neath.
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- About 1889 John Manley and Jessie(or Jeanette as she went by sometimes) possibly meet in Tunbridge Wells (John had left his wife Lavinia with 6 children) or Leeds?
- 1890 - (July 8) Herbert Manley born in Leeds to John and Jessie.
- 1891 - (Feb 8) Herbert Baptized
- 1891 - UK Census, Jessie says she is born in 1867 in Sydenham, Surrey, England. She also indicates she is John Manley’s wife.
- 1892 - (Jan 1) Doris is born in Leeds to John and Jessie.
- 1893 - February 25th, John & Jessie, Herbert and Doris emigrate to Canada under the surname “Bennett” and settle in Toronto.
Jessie is about 5 months pregnant with Edgar (Timothy) who is born June 9th in Toronto.
- 1901 - Canadian Census, indicates Jessie’s birthdate to be November 9, 1866.
- 1902 or about 1903 John Manley leaves Jessie and family - he just disappears, eventually moving back to England where he dies in 1908.
- 1904 June 25, Jessie marries George Fisher in York/Toronto, Ontario, Canada. She indicates her birth year is 1872 on the marriage certificate
I'm very new to Roots Chat and don't always get it right. Hopefully this post will help out. Many thanks to those that are helping.
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Which DNA tests did you do .?
...have you looked at distant matches from particular areas as well as connections through surnames you know ?
..maybe you could find relatives of Jessie's sisters or her maternal line .
I have a distant relatives who changed name to Bennett in 2nd world war apparently chose that name because of a street he.d lived on .
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I used the standard Autosomal-DNA test available through Ancestry.com. That test revealed that I was related to the Manley which solve the G Grandfather questions. I also transferred the raw results to FamilyTree DNA, but I haven't got results that would to Jessie. The problem is that we don't know Jessies correct surname so can't identify current generations through her sisters (if there are any).
Many thanks, Tom
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When I used the ancestry match system I looked at matches that did not have mutual ancestors with the ones I knew .looked at who was mutual matches of matches and then used the match by region option .
Maybe if you have some matches that have links to Islington or Sydenham which do not match the Manley links that could give you possible surnames for Jessie .....It may only work for 3rd cousin or closer matches ..
I found my great grandmothers ...grandson that way though we didn't know her married name .she.did actually married with him a different first name and different spelling of surname ... her son had changed his surname (to Benett) a and his son didn't know anything about his grandmother.
there is merit in pursuing matches even if you can't find how they link on tree.
Hope this makes sense .
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I will certainly give it a try.
Many thanks, Tom
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I should note, if I already haven't someplace in the posts, that Herbert was baptized at St.Aidans on Roundhay Road, Leeds, Yorkshire, which was only a 5 minute walk from where they lived on 4 Lambton St.
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Quote from your other post, posted by Sandra
Got hooked ::) on a Frederick Samuel Bennett who married a Jessie Greig 15 November 1871 St Sepulchre, Holborn. The date was almost the same (a year out) as that birth date for Jessie. Not unknown for parents to have a birth and marriage on the same day. Frederick was a minor and a traveller. Could only find 1 child listed for them in 1872 Frederick John Bennett. Couldn't find any other birth for a Jessie Grieg or Bennett though to fit the couple. ::)
Following this couple:
Marriage details for Frederick and Jessie:
Name: Frederick Samuel Bennett - piano forte maker
Marriage Date: 15 Nov 1871
Marriage Place: St Sepulchre, Holborn, City of London, England
Father: Frederick Bennett ---- traveller
Spouse: Jessie Greig
Son Frederick John Bennett in 1872 already given
Looks like they did have a daughter Jessie:
Birth reg:
BENNETT, JESSIE Mother's maiden name GREIG
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 90
Death for Jessie's mother (Same year and quarter as for Jessie's birth):
BENNETT, JESSIE aged 25
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 79
Frederick Samuel Bennett remarried the following year:
Marriage details:
Name: Frederick Samuel Bennett
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1851
Marriage Date: 28 Apr 1877
Marriage Place: All Saints, Haggerston, Hackney, England
Father: Frederick Bennett
Spouse: Elizabeth Stannard
he is a widower, a piano forte maker aged 26
lived at 60 Albion Road
father Frederick , a commercial traveller
she is aged 24, lived at 24 Borough Rd Hackney
spinster,
father Henry a shoe maker
This looks like Jessie Bennett in 1881 census (living with her grandmother):
Abode: Sandringham Road Hackney
Head: Martha Bennett aged 48 born Grantham Lincolnshire widow no occ: supported by her children
Dau: Catherine A Bennett aged 27 born Shoreditch
Son: John R Bennett aged 24 born Shoreditch
Son: Henry M Bennett aged 22 born Shoreditch
Dau: Annie Bennett aged 19 born Shoreditch
Son: George Y Bennett aged 15 born Shoreditch
Granddaughter: Jessie Bennett aged 5 born Shoreditch<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Marriage for Martha and Frederick
Frederick Bennett
Martha Miller Briggs
Shoreditch
Mar Q 1850
Birth for son Frederick Samuel Bennett:
BENNETT, FREDERICK SAMUEL Mother's maiden name BRIGGS
GRO Reference: 1852 M Quarter in THE SHOREDITCH DISTRICT Volume 01C Page 196
1861 census:
https://tinyurl.com/yc7sqfwr
Frederick Samuel and Elizabeth Bennett (nee Stannard) moving forward:
1881 census:
https://tinyurl.com/ybf6w2vz
1891 census:
https://tinyurl.com/ydgtp35o
1901 census:
https://tinyurl.com/ycx3ysqd
I can't see a link to the surname Richards/Richardson with this Jessie but it might be worth seeing if you can find a DNA link to anyone connected to this family to rule her out.
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Thanks for bringing this one to my attention. Lots of info to bite into.
Tom
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Quote from your other post, posted by Sandra
How do I thank Sandra for all this work and what is my other post (just new to this and having challenges) Thanks, Tom
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Hi Tom,
If you go to page 1 of this post and look at dbree's reply (3rd one down), click onto the link she has given to your other post (which is now on the Canadian board) it should open a new window to reveal your other post. The quote from Sandra's posting can be found on page 14 (2nd one down).
If you would like to thank Sandra personally you can click onto her name, (in red above the vase of flowers) under the flowers on the left you will see Send PM, by clicking onto this a new window will open and you can then send her a personal message.
Chris