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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: EmmaInOtherland on Thursday 07 June 18 15:39 BST (UK)
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I've hit a bit of a brick wall with my great great grandmother Rose May Jones. She married my great grandfather Herbert Charles Ducker in 1905 in Aylesham, Norfolk. She was noted as coming from London and her father was noted as:
William Jones (deceased)
She was born in 18 SEP 1884 • Marylebone, London and I traced her birth certificate
On this it reads that her mother was Anne Elizabeth Jones, barmaid of St Pancras, residing at 32 Burton Crescent, St Pancras. A little research shows this as the address of the pub, the Carpenters Arms. No father's details are noted at all.
I have searched fruitlessly for evidence of Anne's marriage to a William or some record of William and Anne linked to Rose May (census etc), but can't seem to come up with anything.
Can anyone help?
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Welcome to rootschat
Do you have Rose and her mother on census after she was born. It is possible that a fathers name was 'invented' for the marriage certificate.
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Welcome :)
Will have a look - but the immediate reaction is that if you know Rose was born out of wedlock, searches for William may well be fruitless as he may have been a pure invention for the purpose of avoiding the stigma of illegitimacy when she married.
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Does her date of birth on the 1939 register agree with the birth certificate you have :-\
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Does her date of birth on the 1939 register agree with the birth certificate you have :-\
I agree this looks like an inconsistency.
Also - no middle name on marriage or death.
Rose Jones married Herbert Ducker, Dec qtr 1905 Aylsham
Rose Ducker died aged 84, Jun qtr 1968 Norwich.
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Who were the witnesses on the 1905 marriage?
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I agree with the other comments - the birth certificate that you have is not the right one. 'Your' Rose had no second name and had a different birthdate.
Annette
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Who were the witnesses on the 1905 marriage?
Dennis Rouse & Rebecca Ducker ( from certificate on online tree )
Father Williams occupation was a Labourer
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Ah OK. Dennis Rouse seems to have been a local (Aylsham) 17yo labourer in 1901.
Do we have an age and residence for Rose from the certificate too?
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Herbert was age 24 a farm labourer abode Aylsham father Charles occ labourer
Rose was age 21 spinster no occupation abode Aylsham
They married at Aylsham registry office
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I have her and Herbert on the 1911 census. Rosie Ducker estimated birth year abt 1886. Birth place London, England and residing in Thetford.
The 1939 census has her birth date as 23 Jul 1884, Rose Ducker residing with Herbert in Aylsham.
I have her date of death as June 1968 with an estimated birth date of abt 1884 in the Death Index.
I am thinking the 'May' middle name may have come from my viewing a distant cousin's research and taking that as correct. I think that has perhaps lead me on a wild goose chase?
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Looking at the birth certificate I have the birth date is 8 Sep 1884. Not consistent with the 1939 census.
Would her death certificate provide any additional information? I don't have a copy of that yet.
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Unfortunately she died a little too soon for her death certificate to be much use to you (a new format, including exact birthdate and birthplace, was introduced in 1969!).
It is a great pity she was not more specific than "London" as her birthplace in the census.
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The birth year may possibly be a year or two out (they often are) but you do have a birthday of 23rd July which should help.
Annette
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I see that Rose's first two children were born before her marriage to Herbert. Do you have either of those birth certificates for an address and to see who registered the births?
JONES, WINIFRED ELLEN
No mother's maiden surname
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in WALSINGHAM Volume 04B Page 268
JONES, WILLIAM HERBERT
No mother's maiden surname
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in WALSINGHAM Volume 04B Page 273
Debra :)
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Good spot, I hadn't noticed that! I don't have Winifred Ellen or William Herbert's birth certs, so I shall research and see what I can come up with.
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I've found a baptism record for Winifred Ellen Jones 22 Oct 1903, mum Rose Jones, registered at The Union House, Great Snoring, Norfolk. That looks to be a workhouse. No note of the father or Rose's parents though.
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Just found something which may be useful.
Electoral register for Holme Hale, Norfolk, 1920.
Herbert Charles Ducker
Rose Jennie Ducker
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I've not been able to find anything for a Rose Jennie (Jane or Jennifer) Ducker as yet. If her first two children were born in the workhouse would it be worth me ordering their birth certificates? I can see on their baptism records she was noted as 'single woman'. Would there perhaps be additional information on the birth certs?
I have been trying to find some evidence of why she would have come from London to Norfolk, either on her own or with her family. I have found a record of a William H Jones (born 1863) and wife Hannah Jones (born 1861), with a child Rose Jones (born 1883) and sibilings Leonard and Edith in the 1891 England Census. They were residing in Great Ellingham, Norfolk, England. William is noted as being born in London. However, Rose is noted as being born in Great Ellingham. Could this be a lead or another red herring?
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Yes the Great Ellingham family is interesting.
The youngest of the children with them in 1891 is Edith:
Edith Maria Jones, mmn Eastell, Sep qtr 1885 Wayland.
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Rosa A Jones, 17 b Great Ellingham, is in service in Attleborough in 1901.
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Birth reg as Rosannah Jones, mother’s maiden name Eastoll, Sep qtr 1883 Wayland.
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Married Dec qtr 1903 Wayland
Rosa Anna Jones
to Ernest Samuel George or Walter Baker
Death as Rosa A George, 80, Acle (Norfolk), Jun qtr 1964.
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I now have the birth certificate for oldest child Winifred Ellen Jones (born 9 Oct 1903, Union Workhouse, Great Snoring Norfolk)
She is down as "Rose Jones of Fakenham, a domestic servant"
I've been searching for a record of her in Fakenham, but I've come up a blank. I guess this at least hints that she came from London to Norfolk to work as a servant. I just keep coming up with Rose A Jones of Great Ellingham, but she doesn't look to he the correct one.
I have ordered William Herbert Jones' birth cert just in case it provides any additional clues.