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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: spadge1964 on Wednesday 30 May 18 13:06 BST (UK)

Title: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: spadge1964 on Wednesday 30 May 18 13:06 BST (UK)
Hi,

Been trying to trace Honor Judge (nee Melia) who was born in Ormskirk, Lancashire in 1866. She was the daughter of Patrick Melia and Margaret Roach, and the wife of Patrick Judge whom she married at St. Anne's Church in Ormskirk on 26 January 1884. Family oral history tells that she died in child-birth in 1898 but I cannot find any record of her death to confirm this. Any information about Honor is greatly appreciated. One of the problems tracing Honor is the name of her husband changes on different records - census records showing both Patrick and John, and her daughter's marriage cert showing John instead of Patrick. Patrick had a brother called John.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 30 May 18 13:27 BST (UK)
No birth registration showing for a child in 1898  :-\

JUDGE, JAMES       mmn MELIA     
1896  Dec Quarter
ORMSKIRK RD Volume 08B  Page 880   
 
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 30 May 18 13:31 BST (UK)
Deaths Mar qtr 1900   
Honor Judge    age  34   
Bolton RD    8c   250

The death certificate would confirm the cause of her death
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: spadge1964 on Thursday 31 May 18 03:02 BST (UK)
Thanks. Unfortunately I do not think this the right Honor - already bought this cert and it shows a char lady dying in the Bolton workhouse, which does not fit with what I know about the Honor I am researching. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 31 May 18 05:09 BST (UK)
Was there another Honor Judge, though?  Yours is the only one of the right age anywhere in England in 1891, and I can’t see a Judge marrying an Honor between 1891-1901.

Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 31 May 18 07:53 BST (UK)
Have you checked Bolton workhouse records for any other infomation they may have on that Honor it looks as though records they sill have are quite extensive.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Bolton/




Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: spadge1964 on Thursday 31 May 18 16:23 BST (UK)
avm228, great question as to whether there is another Honor Judge and to your point I have been unable to find one having searched for the past couple of years. The easiest answer is that woman who died in the Bolton workhouse is my 2x great grandmother...but I am just not convinced. I can see how oral history from the family could be created to explain a death in child birth when the truth was otherwise, but from all records I have seen I see no reason why she would have died in a workhouse at 34 years of age.

I will follow rosie99's suggestion and see what I can find out from Bolton workhouse records.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my post.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: spadge1964 on Thursday 31 May 18 16:31 BST (UK)
rosie99,

I will also check out the 1896 birth of James Judge. Not a name I have seen before, but a possibility given the DOBs of Honor's other children.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 31 May 18 16:53 BST (UK)
The workhouse hospital would have been used by anyone requiring hospital care at this time regardless as to whether they were resident.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 31 May 18 17:29 BST (UK)
What is the cause of death on the workhouse death certificate (and who was the informant)?
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: emeltom on Thursday 31 May 18 18:43 BST (UK)
According to the GRO site James Judge was born Ormskirk 1896 mmn Melia

Emeltom
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 31 May 18 21:47 BST (UK)
According to the GRO site James Judge was born Ormskirk 1896 mmn Melia

Emeltom

I posted that information on reply 1  ;)  :)
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: spadge1964 on Friday 01 June 18 05:10 BST (UK)
Cause of death on the 1900 Bolton death cert was influenza / pneumonia, and the informant was George Davies, Master of the workhouse at Fishpool, Farnworth.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 01 June 18 12:18 BST (UK)
rosie99,

I will also check out the 1896 birth of James Judge. Not a name I have seen before, but a possibility given the DOBs of Honor's other children.

It is possible that James bn 1896 died in infancy
Deaths Mar qtr 1897   
Judge    James    age 0   
Prescot    8b   500

Prescot RD
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/prescot.html
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: spadge1964 on Friday 01 June 18 12:33 BST (UK)
Thanks again. Does the date in the death register reflect the date of death or the date when the death was registered? The birth was in the December quarter and death in the March quarter of the following year and I am trying to figure out whether James died during birth, which would fit the story of his mother Honor dying in child birth (in a way). Will know more about James in a few days when his birth cert arrives.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 01 June 18 12:43 BST (UK)
The date quoted for the death registration was the quarter in which it was registered.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: andrewalston on Sunday 03 June 18 21:29 BST (UK)
Bolton workhouse at Fishpool eventually became Townley's Hospital. My brother was born there. In workhouse times, it would have provided medical facilities to those in need. Some workhouses had separate maternity wards; Bolton doesn't seem to have had that.

Bolton archives has a lot of the workhouse records available. Admission and discharge registers give the locality from where an inmate was admitted and the reason for discharge. There is a death register which gives burial details - it says my ggg grandmother was "interred by friends" in January 1897.  She's actually in Heaton Cemetery.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: spadge1964 on Tuesday 05 June 18 19:32 BST (UK)
James was born on 14th October 1896 to Honor and Patrick Judge in Ormskirk which makes him my 2nd great-uncle. His birth was registered on 1st December 1896 with Honor as the informant so she did not die during this birth.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: spadge1964 on Saturday 16 June 18 06:08 BST (UK)
Does the inclusion of an occupation on a death cert from a workhouse suggest that the deceased was not an inmate?
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 16 June 18 11:53 BST (UK)
No, they could have been an inmate or just there for the hospital facilities. 

Census for workhouses often show occupations of its inmates.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 16 June 18 15:39 BST (UK)
Have you considered variations of name Honor? 2 of my ancestors from both sides of family were called Honor. They were variously Honoria, Hanora, Hannah, Ann and Annie on official records. Nora(h) is another diminutive.
Title: Re: Honor Judge nee Melia b. Ormskirk 1866
Post by: spadge1964 on Sunday 17 June 18 05:42 BST (UK)
Thanks. I have tried all except the Anne variations.