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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Trixie_au on Wednesday 30 May 18 10:49 BST (UK)

Title: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Wednesday 30 May 18 10:49 BST (UK)
Hi, I’m just wondering if anyone here has access to the Glyntaff cemetery records and could do a lookup for me please? I’m in Australia and totally new to the where/how/what in Wales. So any and all help is very much appreciated please.

We’re trying to find what happened to our Wilfred TALBOT - he was born in England in 1897, came to Australia for a few years then went back to the UK but we don’t know where he ended up! We found a Wilfred TALBOT who looks to be around the right age, dying in a motorcycle accident 11 April 1926. This man lived in Pontypridd, so assume he would’ve been buried in Glyntaff Cemetery. We’ve sent for his death certificate but am now thinking it won’t tell us who his parents were...?

So next thought is if we can find this mans burial, maybe the birth date on his headstone (if there is one) might match to our Wilfred. Also I looked for Welsh newspapers online but can only find to 1919. Is there anyone who could check for a death notice in the newspaper of the area, please? Or any more information about the accident? (Might say where he was born, or son of...? Can anyone help us out please? Thank you!
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 30 May 18 11:27 BST (UK)
Hi, there is a burial at Glyntaff for a Wilfred Talbot in 1926 (only the year detailed on the index). He is buried in plot U.0215. The only other people in the same grave appear to be Edith Mabelia May Talbot, buried in 1983, and Sheila Muriel May Good, buried in 1936.

You can ask the cemetery for details - there may be more info such as where he lived, who arranged the funeral. You can have one lookup for free 😀

Can’t find the email address at the moment but will add it asap.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 30 May 18 11:37 BST (UK)
The only Sheila MM Good in the area appears to have been born and died in Cardiff, both in 1936. Birth registered in March quarter (mother Sutcliffe), death in December quarter.

Edith Marbelia M Talbot, death registered in Cardiff, Dec quarter 1983, date of birth given as 24 Jan 1900.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 30 May 18 11:47 BST (UK)
Edith M M Talbot was living in Cardiff in 1939. In the same household was a Joseph Sutcliffe, yob 1871.

Edith Mabelia May Sutcliffe, born 1900 in Bristol, mother Webster, married Wilfred Talbot in Pontypridd in March quarter 1921. 

Moderator comment: edited for content. 1939 register details removed. You may only post information from a free search.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 30 May 18 12:10 BST (UK)
Do you know where he was born? There is a Wilfred Talbot, born London, with parents George and Sarah in St Pancras, London, in 1901, same family in Merthyr Tydfil later on.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Wednesday 30 May 18 12:24 BST (UK)
Thank you so much Deidre. Great to know the Cemetery will do one free lookup - will get an email off to them, thank you!

The Wilfred who came to Australia was b.1897 Dewsbury, Yorkshire to parents John TALBOT & Theresa CRABTREE.. we know where he fits in the family, but we’d just like to find out where he ended up. Will the 1926 death certificate of this Wilfred likely tell us who his parents were?

Or if not, would the marriage certificate have that info on? Just trying to pin down if this is indeed our fellow, or if it could be just a man around the same age,  who happens to have the same name.

Thanks for all your help :)
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 30 May 18 13:11 BST (UK)
Have a feeling it may not be the same man (though strangely I can’t find a death record). Does he have a 2nd name (there are a few births around that time).

The one in Dewsbury is with his parents in 1901 and 1911 (have you seen his baptism). I think the one in London in 1901 and Merthyr Tydfil in 1911 is more likely to be the one buried in Glyntaff (Merthyr being only a few miles north of Pontypridd).

The death certificate won’t name his parents (would if he still a child), it will only give his name, place of death, occupation, age, cause of death, and the informant of the death, which could be one of his parents, a sibling, friend, or even the coroner if an inquest was held.

The marriage certificate would give the names of their fathers.

Not found an email address for Glyntaff yet sorry, only a postal address and tel number.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Wednesday 30 May 18 13:25 BST (UK)
https://pontypridd.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/glyntaff-cemetery---crematorium-15623022.html
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 30 May 18 13:27 BST (UK)
Apologies, I take back what i said about the Merthyr one looking a better fit. He would appear to be the Wilfred Edward George Talbot born in Marylebone, London in June 1897. Still in Merthyr in 1939.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Wednesday 30 May 18 14:24 BST (UK)
Thank you Cas for the Cemetery Page link, much appreciated :)

Deidre no our Wilfred doesn’t have a middle name, and yep have found his birth and baptism etc. We also found him in 1901 and 1911 Census then shipping records have him travelling to Australia in 1914 with his parents and brother. Then shipping records show the parents and brother returned to England in 1920, and family stories tell us that Wilfred also returned most likely around the same time.

Thanks for checking out the Merthyr chap, so it looks like we might be hopefully on the right track. Will check with the Cemetery and see if there’s a headstone (with hopefully a full birth date), otherwise next step might be to order the marriage certificate. Thank you!

Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 30 May 18 15:06 BST (UK)
Great. Let us know what you find.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: David Pinkney on Sunday 03 June 18 21:31 BST (UK)
I'll try and pop to the cemetery tomorrow after work, see if i can find the stone
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Monday 04 June 18 02:36 BST (UK)
Hi David, that is so wonderfully kind of you and very much appreciated. Thank you!!
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: David Pinkney on Monday 04 June 18 17:48 BST (UK)
Hi David, that is so wonderfully kind of you and very much appreciated. Thank you!!

despite the web site saying its open til 7 it wasn't, may be able to go saturday morning
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Tuesday 05 June 18 00:55 BST (UK)
Thanks for trying David. Fingers crossed for Saturday! Haven’t heard anything back from the Cemetery, so any help is very much appreciated.

Have received the 1926 death cert for Wilfred Talbot, and as suspected it still doesn’t give us anything to confirm that he is our Wilfred.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Tuesday 12 June 18 09:44 BST (UK)
despite the web site saying its open til 7 it wasn't, may be able to go saturday morning

Hi David, just wondering if you had been able to get to the Cemetery on Saturday? Hope you had a lovely weekend.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: David Pinkney on Saturday 16 June 18 10:42 BST (UK)
sorry for the delay. I have been this morning and unfortunately there is no headstone

David
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Saturday 16 June 18 10:51 BST (UK)
Thanks very much for visiting for us David, it’s very much appreciated. A pity there’s no headstone! It’s back to the drawing board now. I guess nothing worthwhile comes easy! Thanks again.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: [Ray] on Saturday 16 June 18 11:16 BST (UK)


PROBATE

Wilfred Talbot
of 42 Coedpenmaen-road Pontypridd Glamorgan
died 11 April 1926 at the Hospital Newtown Montgomeryshire
Administration 17 May to Edith Mabelia May Talbot WIDOW.

Effects £123 10s

Link to image if you have the right credentials . . . . 
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m7i/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m7i/)
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Saturday 16 June 18 16:43 BST (UK)
You could try contacting Pontypridd FH Library via email they are very helpful, if able to help. They may have the interment records for Glyntaff Cem, if lucky may have dob.

Info from electrol register may help, need address given from death cert/probate.  Nothing ventured...worth a shot.

Cas

https://www.rctcbc.gov.uk/EN/Resident/Libraries/Librarylocationsandopeninghours/PontypriddLibrary.aspx
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Sunday 17 June 18 11:53 BST (UK)
PROBATE

Wilfred Talbot
of 42 Coedpenmaen-road Pontypridd Glamorgan
died 11 April 1926 at the Hospital Newtown Montgomeryshire
Administration 17 May to Edith Mabelia May Talbot WIDOW.

Effects £123 10s

Link to image if you have the right credentials . . . . 
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m7i/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m7i/)
Thanks Ray. Have sent off for his will. Not overly confident, as we think he would’ve just left everything to his wife, but hopeful that there may be a clue to his origins in there. Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: dawnsh on Sunday 17 June 18 11:59 BST (UK)
Hi Trixie

In this instance there isn't a will, only a letter of administration.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help

there is a description of the terms towards the bottom

Regrettably you will get no more information apart from an address.

You may want to try and cancel your order from HMCTS but I don't know if that is possible.

Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Sunday 17 June 18 12:00 BST (UK)
You could try contacting Pontypridd FH Library via email they are very helpful, if able to help. They may have the interment records for Glyntaff Cem, if lucky may have dob.

Info from electrol register may help, need address given from death cert/probate.  Nothing ventured...worth a shot.

Cas

https://www.rctcbc.gov.uk/EN/Resident/Libraries/Librarylocationsandopeninghours/PontypriddLibrary.aspx

Thanks Cas. Have now heard back from Cemetery enquiry, and no DOB in the burial records unfortunately. Will contact the library and see if there are newspapers of the time which may have more on the accident that took his life, and maybe a death notice if we’re lucky, although his parents and brother were up in Durham.

Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: dawnsh on Sunday 17 June 18 12:04 BST (UK)
Even now, very few cemeteries and crematoria ask for dates of birth, they generally ask for an age last birthday.

They only ask for a date of death for their records.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Sunday 17 June 18 12:05 BST (UK)
Hi Trixie

In this instance there isn't a will, only a letter of administration.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help

there is a description of the terms towards the bottom

Regrettably you will get no more information apart from an address.

You may want to try and cancel your order from HMCTS but I don't know if that is possible.

Oh! Thanks dawnsh, we ordered it a few days ago now so might be too late to cancel. Gee it’s definitely not proving easy to get info on this man!

And thanks for the advice re Cemetery records. I think we have been incredibly spoiled in Australia, we seem to record everything!
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: dawnsh on Sunday 17 June 18 12:12 BST (UK)
you might be spoiled but trying to get information out of the Australian authorities is nigh on impossible for events less than so many years.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Sunday 17 June 18 12:28 BST (UK)
Only if the people are still living though, which is fair enough, but that’s where the electoral rolls come in handy.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Deirdre784 on Sunday 17 June 18 12:43 BST (UK)
Trixie_au, to establish if this Wilfred is your Wilfred the best bet would be to buy the marriage certificate to Edith. That would give his father’s name (if known) and occupation so should confirm one way or the other.
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Trixie_au on Friday 22 June 18 09:16 BST (UK)
Thanks Deirdre, have just received the marriage cert and excited to know he's our Wilfred :) Thanks to everyone for your wonderful advice and help, it's very much appreciated!
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Deirdre784 on Friday 22 June 18 09:37 BST (UK)
Thanks Deirdre, have just received the marriage cert and excited to know he's our Wilfred :) Thanks to everyone for your wonderful advice and help, it's very much appreciated!

Brilliant, a sad end to his life but he’d done quite a lot with a stay in Australia etc, and great to solve the puzzle.

Sad in a way to see that his widow never re-married, was in her 80s when she died, and is buried with Wilfred 💕

Wonder who the baby buried with them was?
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: iolaus on Saturday 23 June 18 21:05 BST (UK)
You may have got it off of google street maps but his address is next door to my local butchers - so let me know if you want a photo of the house
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: iolaus on Saturday 23 June 18 21:18 BST (UK)

Wonder who the baby buried with them was?

Seems to be the child of Charles Good and Phyllis Sutcliffe - who married in Cardiff 1935

Phyllis Sutcliffe born Pontypridd 1912 has MMN of Webster (despite Edith being born in Bristol by 1911 she's in Pontypridd with her parents so stands to reason a baby sister being born there)
Edith's MMN was also Webster

So I'm guessing it's their baby niece buried with them
Title: Re: Glyntaff Cemetery help please
Post by: Deirdre784 on Saturday 23 June 18 21:54 BST (UK)
Thanks iolaus, looked for a Good - Sutcliffe marriage from 1930 but didn’t see that one.  ::)