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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: S128 on Monday 21 May 18 14:20 BST (UK)
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Hello
I'm becoming a little confused from the search of my Grandfathers side of the family. Having received a death certificate today of a person we haven't been able to find much information on, I'm a little more confused and I was wondering if anyone could be of help to me.
My Great- Great Grandfather Frederick John Mardon had two children with a woman named Bertha Rivett (2x Great Grandmother). One of them being my Great-Grandfather. On his and his Brother's birth certificate the Father is listed as Frederick John Mardon & Bertha as Mother but she is called Bertha Mardon (formerly Rivett). Taking on my 2x GG's last name....
On her death certificate she is called Bertha Rivett and is listed as having died at a different address to Frederick. He is the informant (causing her body to be buried). But then in her occupation she is shown as being Frederick's domestic housekeeper at his address & labelled as a spinster. She was 46 when she died in 1927 from tuberculosis.
From being told stories from my Grandfather (who is no longer alive, so I can't ask him any questions about it), after she died both of the children were put into an orphanage by Frederick John Mardon & they never saw him again.....
I know that Frederick was married previously but I have found a trail of his first wife and she seems to be no longer living with Frederick past 1912, the year that my Great- Grandfather was born.
I know there was a stigma attached to having children out of wedlock back then but I find it rather sad that having had his two children & being involved with him from 1912 till 1927 (which is a long term relationship) she is just listed as his domestic housekeeper & a Spinster according to him... Presumably he is the one who gave them this information having been the informant & then their two children being put into an orphanage shortly after... It all seems very odd to me.
Apologies for the long text. I know obviously no one can really tell me what happened but has anyone else come across such things in their family research?
Thank you to anyone who replies
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Cohabiting couples told all sorts of stories to make them appear a married couple, I could give you several examples I have come across. Frederick obviously decided it was best to register Bertha's death in her correct name and status.
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I know there was a stigma attached to having children out of wedlock back then but I find it rather sad that having had his two children & being involved with him from 1912 till 1927 (which is a long term relationship) she is just listed as his domestic housekeeper & a Spinster according to him...
He didn't really have much choice (other than to commit perjury). If they never married, then he wasn't a relative of hers and unless he was present at the death then "causing her body to be buried" may have been the only qualification he could fit in to be able to register the death.
The same qualification gets used today for co-habiting couples quite regularly.
If she was using his name then the names of the father and mother on the birth certificates could be OK, but it sounds like they were falsely claiming to be married - to be sure you need to look at the informant column.
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Cohabiting couples told all sorts of stories to make them appear a married couple, I could give you several examples I have come across. Frederick obviously decided it was best to register Bertha's death in her correct name and status.
Thank you
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I know there was a stigma attached to having children out of wedlock back then but I find it rather sad that having had his two children & being involved with him from 1912 till 1927 (which is a long term relationship) she is just listed as his domestic housekeeper & a Spinster according to him...
He didn't really have much choice (other than to commit perjury). If they never married, then he wasn't a relative of hers and unless he was present at the death then "causing her body to be buried" may have been the only qualification he could fit in to be able to register the death.
The same qualification gets used today for co-habiting couples quite regularly.
If she was using his name then the names of the father and mother on the birth certificates could be OK, but it sounds like they were falsely claiming to be married - to be sure you need to look at the informant column.
Thank you for your reply.
The informant column on which document, sorry?
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(https://i.imgur.com/da0OkBY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IBXLfka.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CF2LuWh.jpg)
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The informant column on which document, sorry?
The birth certificates of the children - as they only have a single informant, but mother and father are both named, then you can be certain that they were claiming to be married.
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The death certificate gives Bertha's normal address as the same as Frederick's, so she died away from home.
A quick search shows 73a Devons Rd as the Poplar and Stepney Sick Asylum, later known as St Andrews Hospital.
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The death certificate gives Bertha's normal address as the same as Frederick's, so she died away from home.
A quick search shows 73a Devons Rd as the Poplar and Stepney Sick Asylum, later known as St Andrews Hospital.
Thank you. I thought as it was under occupation it meant that was where she worked?
I had just Googled the address where she died before refreshing here and had come to the same conclusion!
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The death certificate gives Bertha's normal address as the same as Frederick's, so she died away from home.
A quick search shows 73a Devons Rd as the Poplar and Stepney Sick Asylum, later known as St Andrews Hospital.
Thank you. I thought as it was under occupation it meant that was where she worked?
I had just Googled the address where she died before refreshing here and had come to the same conclusion!
Oh I seem to have jumped to conclusions!! I now understand the death certificate a little clearer. Thank you for your help! :-[ ;D
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When they married my grandfather's first child from his first marriage went into an orphanage - I have no idea why she didn't live with my grandparents
I knew she didn't grow up with my dad but assumed it was just because she had married before his birth - she turned up (with the husband) when my dad was 12, after their father had died