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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: trevalyn on Friday 18 May 18 22:33 BST (UK)

Title: War Graves WW1
Post by: trevalyn on Friday 18 May 18 22:33 BST (UK)
I am trying to locate the graves of three WW1 soldiers who died in the Belfast Workhouse at 51 Lisburn Road.

SAMUEL BOYLE - died 6 Nov 1918.
THOMAS MORGAN - died 20 Feb 1918
SAMUEL CARLISLE - died 3 July 1918.

All had been discharged due to wounds or illness.

Does anyone have any information on any of these lads?  Did the Lisburn Road Workhouse have its own burial ground and, if so, are there any surviving burial records?
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: IMBER on Saturday 19 May 18 09:51 BST (UK)
You may be aware of it but it might be helpful for others to know that these three are commemorated by the CWGC in their UK Book of Remembrance and online. Their burial places are still under investigation.

Imber
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: City Hall on Sunday 20 May 18 12:07 BST (UK)
I searched the Belfast City Council website for cemeteries controlled by them but could find no mention of these 3 gentlemen. However BCC do not control the main Roman Catholic cemetery called Milltown. If you call Milltown's site office tel number 02890 613972 and quote the names and dates of death, they will tell you immediately if they are buried in Milltown or not.
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: adam_in_SW_Middx on Sunday 20 May 18 15:27 BST (UK)
As they died in the UK and CWGC site says "investigating..." my first port of call would be the 1911 census and then in a large town or city old maps particularly useful are:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore (http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore), the National Library of Scotland have the whole UK covered and interactive

First see if the nearest cemetery has records online, e.g. (gravestone photographic resource, familysearch) for free at first and if you are local then visit, war graves are well-known plain white rectangular headstones. (I am more saying this for those unfamiliar with the subject, not you).  Any marriage records easily found for the parents should narrow down where the parents married and that churchyard or its more recent burials site would be a good port of call, you may be willing to make a discreet enquiry of the church as to what churchyard was used in that timeframe.

Finally, without turning over too much ground, the newspapers and institutional records should bring the graves/service to light with a following wind, but in my opinion a lower % chance and a lot to sift through.


Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: trevalyn on Sunday 20 May 18 17:10 BST (UK)
Grateful to City Hall and Adam in SW Middx.for your contributions. I have already checked with Milltown Cemetery - no trace. The down side is that they may be buried in one of the old cemeteries eg Shankill, for which the records have been lost. But I'll keep trying - and all suggestions welcome.
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 20 May 18 17:21 BST (UK)
Samuel Carlisle's death was registered by his father John and gives his home address, difficult to read but think it's 9B Christopher St.
It's quite possible the families interred the men in family plots but they may not have been able to afford headstones.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1918/05181/4430551.pdf

Samuel Boyle also has a home address, Ballymagerry(?)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1918/05174/4427801.pdf
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 20 May 18 17:31 BST (UK)
Thomas Morgan left a will, effects to his sister Mrs Katie Faulkner Louth
http://soldierswills.nationalarchives.ie/reels/sw/1918_22/MorganT_DE768119.pdf
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: gaffy on Sunday 20 May 18 17:35 BST (UK)

Samuel Carlisle's death was registered by his father John and gives his home address, difficult to read but think it's 9B Christopher St...


It was, this from the 1918 Belfast street directory for Christopher Street:
9b. Carlisle, John, labourer

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1918_b.htm

Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 20 May 18 17:47 BST (UK)
This appears to be Katie in 1911 and her marriage in 1904 both indicate the Morgan's were from Dunleer Louth and RC
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Louth/Dunleer/Trean/570106/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10189/5707861.pdf

Hope that helps find Thomas' resting place, good luck
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: trevalyn on Sunday 20 May 18 18:03 BST (UK)
I have the Death Certificates for all three. Samuel Carlisle was indeed Christopher St. I am exploring the possible options (place-name spelling) for Samuel Boyle. The Dunleer lead for Thomas Morgan is very interesting. Thanks again.
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: City Hall on Monday 21 May 18 10:26 BST (UK)
I am exploring the possible options (place-name spelling) for Samuel Boyle.

There is/was a townland called Ballymagarry in the Shankill area of Belfast.It is where the present day  Highfield estate and Ballygomartin Road are located.
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: trevalyn on Monday 21 May 18 11:18 BST (UK)
That sounds about right. In 1911, Samuel and his sister were living with an uncle, aunt and multiple cousins (Weir family) at Lawnbrook Square.
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: dathai on Monday 21 May 18 16:23 BST (UK)
Samuel Boyle married Martha Weir 1893
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10595/5859752.pdf
they had a son Alexander 1900 at Springfield Village
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01999/1768988.pdf
he died 3 months later at Island St informant was an uncle Samuel Donnelly same address
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05755/4625698.pdf
mother Martha died shortly after at Springfield Row
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05755/4625665.pdf
Samuel died 1905 at Mayo St informant Joseph Weir of Lawnbrook
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05605/4575954.pdf
Title: Re: War Graves WW1
Post by: trevalyn on Tuesday 22 May 18 22:36 BST (UK)
Thank you for all that. Increasingly I get the feeling that the old Shankhill graveyard is the most likely - with no records.