RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: proteanz on Saturday 12 May 18 02:56 BST (UK)
-
We have uplifted just under 90 headstones that have been buried there since November 1982.
We have been cleaning and arranging for relatives to view. We do have several we have not been able to find relatives for. Edward and Mary Ling. Edward died 1910 and Mary 1919. Ivar Jacobus Hoiby.
Ivar died in 1903 after rescuing two boys in the surf. H was given a post-humous award for bravery.
We have searched so many avenues and would appreciate any help.
-
Re: LING
Are you sure Edward's wife was Mary? I cannot find a death registered for Mary but there is one for an Elizabeth - 1919/3583 aged 80 years, giving a birth year of c1839.
There is an Immigration record for an Edward and Elizabeth Ling travelling to Canterbury on 1 September 1874. Edward's birthplace is given as Suffolk and he is a ploughman. Elizabeth's birthplace is given as Kent. Edward aged 29 and Elizabeth aged 31. There are no children listed with them and at the moment I cannot find any marriage record for Edward and Elizabeth.
This looks to be Edward's birth record from the GRO website:-
LING, EDWARD WARD
GRO Reference: 1846 S Quarter in HOXNE Volume 13 Page 447
There is an 1851 census record which looks to be the correct Edward
Living at Doggetts, New Street, Stradbrooke, Hoxne, Suffolk with parents Edward and Charlotte and six brothers.
Registration district Hoxne
Piece number 1796
Folio 95
Page 10
If it was me I would be obtaining the death certificate for Elizabeth Ling and seeing what that reveals.
-
I don't know if you already have this, but there is a newspaper report about Hoiby's death:-
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/PBH19030316.2.21
It appears he was Norwegian.
-
Hi, Thank you for your response. There are two people in the grave and the other is Mary who we understand is Edward's sister. The headstone definitely states Edward, husband of Elizabeth. We found an advertisement in a Melbourne newspaper for her about 1912.
We know Ivar Hoiby came from Norway (Bergen). The Humane Society gave him a post-humous award and sent his mother the certificate and commendation. His headstone is quite amazing, built like a rock and I think it must have had a cross or something on the top, but it is definitely not there now
-
Edwards wife Elizabeth, and she is not buried here, but Mary is. Think she is sister to Edward. We have checked and it definitely looks
like that
-
Cant get a death certificate for Elizabeth as we dont know where she died. Definitely not in N,Z.
-
So who is this then?
1919/3583 Ling Elizabeth 80Y
Above from:- https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz
I see that Mary Ling was 80 when she died therefore giving a birth year of about 1839. Her burial date is given as 8 April 1919.
What was the advertisement that you found for Mary in a Melbourne newspaper in 1912? What did it say?
-
We have a very old death register kept in a safe at the local library and it has more data than on-line.
A previous data base has Mary in it, and we are checking it out because the death date is the same. It would not be the first or last mistake in that book.
The mystery deepens in another way because on the NZSG Marriages disc it has Edward marrying Elizabeth Ann Matilda Petty in 1982. Did he marry twice??? Both times to an Elizabeth
Dot
-
Advertisement said something along the lines of - anyone know the whereabouts of Elizabeth Ling please contact box ???
-
Well if it was me I would be obtaining the 1910 death certificate for Edward, the 1919 death certificate for Elizabeth(Mary?) and the 1892 marriage certificate.
It would be most interesting to see just what is on those certificates. I believe you have more information on your certificates than we do in the UK.
However I don't know if you would be allowed to do that.
-
was considering that. Theirs is one of the buried headstones we have unearthed and have no signature for. Will keep you posted
-
Poverty Bay Herald 6 Apr 1920 p2
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/PBH19200406.2.7?
...In Mem Elizabeth LING.....died 5 Apr 1919 80 years ...Mr and Mrs BIMLER
At Familysearch - probate file for Edward LING of Whataupoko, gardener
....executor and sole beneficiary wife Elizabeth Ann Matilda LING
...Will made out 17 Jul 1897
-
Thank you. We have been down that track, too. Still need someone to sign, It is a large white marble headstone, a little ornate at the top
-
You start to wonder, well what happened to the first Elizabeth? The one who presumably arrived in New Zealand with Edward in 1874.
One has to assume for the moment that the 1919 death refers to the second Elizabeth.
Hopefully the death and marriage certificates may shed some light on the matter.
-
I have the two death certificates and marriage lines, Her death certificate is very sad as most boxes were marked and she died of senility.
His death certificate says he had prostate cancer, his fathers name wasd and mother Mary, nee Ward. It says they were married at Faversham, Kent? ? ? at age 27 to Elizabeth Ann nee Kemp.
The marriage lines say she was a Kemp, but she had been married to someone called Petty and had not heard from him since October 1873. They both lived in Gisborne but were married in Wanganui at the Registry Office. Her mother's name was Mary Ann nee Hamon and the father George, address looks like Teynham, Co, Kent. Looks a bit like they could not get married because she was already married, and when a certain time had elapsed, they did so, but why say he married at age 27 to her. ????
K
-
Hhmm trying to find a marriage for Kemp/Petty and not coming up with anything. However I seem to have found the marriage of Elizabeth's parents:-
George Kemp to Mary Ann Newman on 28 September 1834 at Minster in Sheppey, Kent. Groom's residence given as Teynham.
So the Teynham fits there.
This appears to be Elizabeth's birth registration:-
KEMP, ELIZABETH NEWMAN
GRO Reference: 1840 J Quarter in FAVERSHAM UNION Volume 05 Page 174
I've found Elizabeth's family in the 1841 census living at Blue House, Teynham, Faversham, Kent
Parents George and Mary and two older siblings Mary (1836) and George (1838).
Registration District Faversham
Piece number 476
Book number 4
Folio number 22
Page number 6
In 1851 living at Barrow Green, Teynham, Faversham, Kent, now has four younger siblings.
Registration district Faversham
Piece number 1626
Folio 566
Page 19
Well this is interesting. Elizabeth is still with her family in the 1861 and still single.
I'm not finding any marriage between a Petty and a Kemp up to 1874.
-
Could you clarify Edward's father's name please? You have put 'wasd' and Mary.
I'm getting the impression that your information says Edward married at the age of 27 to Elizabeth Kemp in Faversham.
If that is correct then that marriage took place just before they left the UK to travel to NZ.
-
I think I have just cracked the Petty/Kemp marriage. Look at this:-
Marriages Sep 1862
Kemp Elizabeth Faversham 2a 964
Petts William Faversham 2a 964
I found the couple in 1871 living at Celler Hill, Lynsted, Faversham, Kent
Registration District is Faversham
Piece number 980
Folio 90
Page 9
This probably means that Edward did not marry two Elizabeths but just one in 1892. Elizabeth Petts nee Kemp.
Elizabeth would have been committing bigamy as I suspect her husband William Petts did not die until 1909.
PETTS, WILLIAM 72
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in FAVERSHAM Volume 02A Page 576
Gives a birth year of 1837 or 1836 if birthday later in the year.
Don't quite know why Elizabeth has acquired two more christian names on the marriage cert. Possibly to make people think she was a different Elizabeth Kemp? Who knows?
-
Sorry about typo. Have left arm in cast from armpit to knuckles. Do most with one hand and an occasional error slips in.
Dot
-
Oh dear how incredibly awkward for you :o
Could you clarify who Edward's father was please? Your quote "his fathers name wasd and mother Mary, nee Ward."
As you can see I seem to have solved the 'Petty' name.
-
His father's name was Edward, and mother Mary Ann nee Ward
I wondered if they had come out on their own - maybe one of his brothers. Just a thought
-
The only marriage that I can find for an Edward Ling to a Ward is this one:-
Marriages Dec 1837
LING Edward Hoxne 13 959
WARD Charlotte Hoxne 13 959
I gave you the 1851 census details plus Edward Jnr's birth registration at reply #1
I located the burial record for Mary Ling at Makaraka Cemetery. Info below, which you probably already have:-
Details for Mary Ling
Surname: Ling
Forenames: Mary
Gender: Female
Age group: Adult
Age: 80
Denomination: Baptist
Type: Burial
Date of Birth: Unknown
Date of Death: Unknown
Date of Burial: 08/04/1919
Cemetery: Makaraka
Block: MKF
Plot #: 1284
Map Location: Click Here
Warrant Number: 3268
What puzzles me about Mary is that I cannot find any death registration for her on the NZ BDM website.
I did find a death registration for a Mary Ann Ling in 1907/7502 Age 64, born c.1843. I think she may have been the wife of one of Edward Jnr's brothers James Ling whose death is registered in 1938/20299 age 90, born c.1848.
There is an emigration record for James and Mary A Ling here:-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6MZQ-PYV?i=5&cc=1609792
-
Would you be able to trace Mary Ling buried on 8 April 1919 through the electoral registers? It would be interesting to see if she is living with anyone.
Not sure about census records. Can you access those?
-
Hi, We have done more extensive search about the Ling family.
He was born in England, and was one of 6 boys by the look of it. She married to someone written up in Ancestry as Patts, but have doubts about the rightness of that. Edward and Elizabeth obviously came to N.Z. as husband and wife, and settled in Gisborne as that. They got married in Wanganui -probably because no one would find out that they had not been married to each other before. She stated on the marriage certificate that she had been married but had had no contact with her husband since 1873. We found out that her first husband died in 1905, so she really committed bigamy. They never had any children. I have been in touch with a relative over there who has been trying to do the family tree, and stated that she could not find anything about him after the 1871 Census. She wants to take responsibility for the headstone, but has been made redundant and is not old enough to get a pension, so is financially strapped. Interesting, and probably others in the same boat.
-
So that would suggest that the 1851 census I found was the correct one. Good that you managed to find a relative but unfortunate that she cannot assist re headstone.
Ancestry trees always need to be treated with caution.
Who was supposed to be married to a Patts and when? Or was that the marriage and death that I found at Reply#17?