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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: wickedwenchdee on Thursday 10 May 18 16:11 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to find a needle in a Haystack!!! My Husbands Grandfather was a man called Thomas McGee an Electric Cranesman who lived in Argyle Street in Glasgow in 1936. That's all we know. He wasn't married to Hubbys Grandmother as she was married to someone else!
Is there any way to get any more details about him, either from his address or occupation?
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Hi there
Welcome to RootsChat :)
One place to check would be the Valuation Rolls. The nearest year to the one you mention that Scotlands People have added online to their databases is 1935. See www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Would be good if you used wildcards for searching that surname ::) On SP for example you can search as M*CG*E...would pick up Mc or Mac and also, GHIE GHEE GEE.
Monica
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Did Thomas and hubby's grandmother go on to marry...or not? Thinking you might check the marriage cert if so.
How old approx was grandmother c. 1936? Just sometimes can give a possible clue to the person you are trying to look for.
Monica
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Hi Monica. As far as I know there was no marriage between His Grandmother and Thomas. We only know of Thomas as he is named as the Father on Hubbys Moms Birth Cert. Grandmother was 44 in 1936. She died in 1942 and the informant was her Husband William, so looks like she was still with him. I will look at the Valuation Roll as you suggested (haven't got a clue what they are but i'll look them up ???)
Thank you for your help
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Hi I just checked the Valuation Rolls for 1935 on Scotlandspeople for you and there is no Thomas McGee listed as living there. It is a very long street with lots of shops and houses.
However there is a Patrick McGhee living as a tennant at number 463 and a Gilbert McGhee at 762. If either of these were relatives of your Thomas then perhaps he lodged with them ???
Does the birth certificate give a house number on the birth certificate?
Dorrie
A warm welcome to rootschat from me too.
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Hello Dorrie,
Firstly thank you for looking for me.
The birth Cert says its 30 Argyle Street Glasgow. I have had a look (never looked at Valuation Rolls before) but couldn't find him. I think he is going to remain a mystery.
Denise
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I’ve also checked the Voters Rolls on Ancestry and there is no match there either.
Isobel
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Thank you Isobel.
This Gentleman is a bit of a Mystery.
Denise
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Did Thomas McGee sign the birth register?
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All I have is a copy of the Birth Certificate. If I knew how to post a copy I would.
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What is the wording under each column?
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Was the baby born at 30 Argyle Street or is that listed as the address of Thomas McGee?
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That's the address of the Father (Thomas) Mary was born at 196 Wallace Street Glasgow.
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I can't see 30 Argyle Street on the VRs
Could there be another number before the 30?
What was the family surname?
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No, it definitely says number 30 !!!
I'm hoping to get a copy of the Cert up on here soon. The mothers maiden name was McManus, married name Rodgers
Denise
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That's the address of the Father (Thomas) Mary was born at 196 Wallace Street Glasgow.
Is it known whether Thomas McGee was still alive when Mary married i.e. was he named on the marriage with an occupation & was she ever in touch with Thomas?
Hoping for a timeline for a death from any info?
Annie
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There is no McManus or Rodgers registered at 196 Wallace Street Glasgow on 1935 VRs
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Hi Annie,
I'm not at home at the moment to check, but i'll let you know as soon as I can.
Thank you
Denise
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Would be good if you used wildcards for searching that surname ::) On SP for example you can search as M*CG*E...would pick up Mc or Mac and also, GHIE GHEE GEE.
Monica
This is always a good idea as Monica points out but it may also be worth considering Magee which I'm unsure whether it would be picked up with those wildcards but worth remembering as accents can come up with all sorts & you're unlucky to have such a hard name to locate if it was written how it sounded more especially for a death as the info. was given by someone else who may have pronounced the surname a bit different?
Annie
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This is so much more complicated than I thought it would be when I first started doing it. Hopefully I'll get time tomorrow to juggle with all the name variants..
Thank you so much
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Just helping Denise out with clips from the cert.
First image is the address for the birth of baby.
Second clip are the details showing for father Thomas McGee, an electric cranesman as Denise mentined earlier. From the cert, he did sign the register but the cert Denise has is a copy register and does not show his original signature to compare elsewhere unfortunately
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Monica, thank you very much.
Denise
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What surname was the child registered with?
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Mcgee. (Mary Josephine)
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As Thomas attended the registration of the birth it would suggest that William Rodgers and his wife were separated
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M J is registered under all surnames McGee, McManus & Rodgers being as they were unmarried.
Annie
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What address was she residing when she died?
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That's the address of the Father (Thomas) Mary was born at 196 Wallace Street Glasgow.
Is it known whether Thomas McGee was still alive when Mary married i.e. was he named on the marriage with an occupation & was she ever in touch with Thomas?
Hoping for a timeline for a death from any info?
Annie
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Thomas was named as Mary's Father on her Marriage Cert with the same occupation as on her Birth Cert (electric cranesman)
As Mary's Mother died when Mary was 6 years old we have only sketchy details of her life from 6 years old.
Unfortunately Mary died 4 years ago and she didn't remember much about her younger years. She didn't remember a Father Figure at all (she thought she was taken to live with Nuns after her mother passed)
When her mother died the informant was her Husband William Rodgers.
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As Thomas attended the registration of the birth it would suggest that William Rodgers and his wife were separated
We did wonder about this however William was the informant on her death!
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I’ve found the 1937 post office directory for Glasgow online. It bears out what I found on the 1936 Voters Roll (Ancestry). There does not appear to have been a 30 Argyle Street. All that area ( which was/is one of the main shopping streets) was taken up with shops/dept stores. Wallace and Weir (outfitters) were at 26 and Cable Shoes at 32 with nothing in between. Woolworths were at 36-48. Marks and Spencer were at 18 ( still there).
Isobel
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What address did Mary die at?
Did William and Mary have other children?
When and where did William die?
Did Mary have other children with Thomas McGee?
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I’ve found the 1937 post office directory for Glasgow online. It bears out what I found on the 1936 Voters Roll (Ancestry). There does not appear to have been a 30 Argyle Street. All that area ( which was/is one of the main shopping streets) was taken up with shops/dept stores. Wallace and Weir (outfitters) were at 26 and Cable Shoes at 32 with nothing in between. Woolworths were at 36-48. Marks and Spencer were at 18 ( still there).
Isobel
I'm totally stumped. If I was to order a birth certificate would it show any further details or would it be just a registrar copy the same as I have. (Mary gave me this copy before she died)
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What address did Mary die at?
Did William and Mary have other children?
When and where did William die?
Did Mary have other children with Thomas McGee?
Mary (senior) was living at 81 MacLean street Glasgow at the time of her death on 28/7/1942.
Not sure if she and William had any other children together however when William died on 27/11/1963 the informant was his son (W or H Rodgers) Williams address at the time of his death was 119 Hydepark street Glasgow.
I haven't found details of his son yet!
Don't think Mary had any other children with Thomas!
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Thomas was named as Mary's Father on her Marriage Cert with the same occupation as on her Birth Cert (electric cranesman)
What I was wondering is whether there was mention of her father being deceased on her MC?
This would be normal to have all his details, name, occ. then deceased or dec'd
If it doesn't have deceased we can assume he was still alive unless she was unsure of his whereabouts or whether she even knew him?
Annie
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Thomas was named as Mary's Father on her Marriage Cert with the same occupation as on her Birth Cert (electric cranesman)
What I was wondering is whether there was mention of her father being deceased on her MC?
This would be normal to have all his details, name, occ. then deceased or dec'd
If it doesn't have deceased we can assume he was still alive unless she was unsure of his whereabouts or whether she even knew him?
Annie
It doesn't say deceased, but I'm assuming contact was lost. Sorry I'm not being very helpful. I'm totally lost on this one. X
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In the 1930 valuation roll 80 Argyle Street is listed, just seems to have disappeared after that
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It was 30 Argyle street not 80. 😞
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It was 30 Argyle street not 80. 😞
Sorry....I've put 80 instead of 30 in my post
The address reads 30/28 Argyle Street...Vauderville Pictures Ltd
The numbers down the left hand side are consecutive numbers
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There is possible mention:
Site Name Glasgow, 16-18 Argyle Street
Classification Shop (20th Century), Warehouse (20th Century)
Alternative Name(s) 3 Virginia Street; 18-30 Argyle Street; Marks And Spencer Warehouse
https://canmore.org.uk/site/146296/glasgow-16-18-argyle-street
Building (from picture on link above?) now appears to be listed? www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2284336
Monica
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Capricorn, with your mention of the Vauderville Pictures Ltd, there is this:
Norman McLeod Allan - Granted permission in 1908 by Glasgow magistrates to open a venue at 28 Argyle Street comprising coin-operated phonographs, animated picture machines, and stereoscopes fitted with peephole lenses. He also received permission to open this entertainment on Sundays, with the assurance that only sacred music would be available to play. Allan's 'penny gaff' later became the site of the Vaudeville Picture House, which charged an admission fee of 3d for a programme lasting half an hour. Penny gaffs were relatively unusual in Scotland, perhaps because there were other forms of cheap entertainment available, and within a matter of weeks the Vaudeville had adopted the two-hour programme typical of other Glasgow houses.
https://earlycinema.gla.ac.uk/people/
Doesn't help with any lodging or boarding accomodation in the nearby buildings unfortunately :-\
Monica
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Capricorn, with your mention of the Vauderville Pictures Ltd, there is this:
Norman McLeod Allan - Granted permission in 1908 by Glasgow magistrates to open a venue at 28 Argyle Street comprising coin-operated phonographs, animated picture machines, and stereoscopes fitted with peephole lenses. He also received permission to open this entertainment on Sundays, with the assurance that only sacred music would be available to play. Allan's 'penny gaff' later became the site of the Vaudeville Picture House, which charged an admission fee of 3d for a programme lasting half an hour. Penny gaffs were relatively unusual in Scotland, perhaps because there were other forms of cheap entertainment available, and within a matter of weeks the Vaudeville had adopted the two-hour programme typical of other Glasgow houses.
https://earlycinema.gla.ac.uk/people/
Doesn't help with any lodging or boarding accomodation in the nearby buildings unfortunately :-\
Monica
Thank you Monica for that, it's so interesting to read. To be honest I don't think we will ever find out who he was. I think from now on i'll turn my attention to finding Williams Son.....another mystery for me!
Thank you so much for helping me.
Denise
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It was 30 Argyle street not 80. 😞
Sorry....I've put 80 instead of 30 in my post
The address reads 30/28 Argyle Street...Vauderville Pictures Ltd
The numbers down the left hand side are consecutive numbers
Thank you for searching for me, I think i'll have to give up looking for Thomas, I just don't think we will ever find him.
Denise
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William Rodgers married Mary Josephine McManus 1916 in Gorbals
There is a birth registered 1918 in Gorbals for a William Rodgers
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Denise...No need to give up!
We all have brick walls which in many cases can take yrs to knock down.
I'm wondering if going down the route of finding out which industries would have used an 'Electric Cranesman' may hold any clues?
The address on the birth 'seems' fictitious as it's not an address where someone would live from what has been found but the fact he had the decency to sign the birth makes me wonder if, as was mentioned earlier, the address did have another digit prior to 30 e.g. 430 which may have been misheard as 'Oh, 30' if he was lodging with someone?
It may be worth tracing the others I think it was Isobel had found living in Argyle Street for any clues such as marriage witness/death etc. with the same occ?
Annie
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Was there an address given for the son on William's death record?
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Was there an address given for the son on William's death record?
Yes. 1 Pitt Street Glasgow.
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William Rodgers married Mary Josephine McManus 1916 in Gorbals
There is a birth registered 1918 in Gorbals for a William Rodgers
Thank you for finding that, I can see it now on Scotlands people.
Will I be able to view those details soon? I understand once the 100 years are up then the records should be online.
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Denise, you can view the marriage now (you may have done that already?). The birth certainly has to wait to the beginning of 2019 as you thought.
Can I check, are you in Scotland? If so, you could view modern certificates online in person at one of the main genealogy centres.
Monica
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Had some leftover Scotlandspeople credits so checked out this possible 1966 death for you. Informant was Patrick Rodgers, uncle.
Isobel
Sorry - have to post several images due to file size
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Second clip
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Third clip
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Great find, Isobel
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Had some leftover Scotlandspeople credits so checked out this possible 1966 death for you. Informant was Patrick Rodgers, uncle.
Isobel
Sorry - have to post several images due to file size
Isobel YOU ARE A STAR.......Sending a BIG HUG your way.
This is fantastic news (although sad as I hoped he may still be alive)
Thank you so so much.
Denise
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Great find, Isobel
She is a Star of the highest order
Denise
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Just helping Denise out with clips from the cert.
First image is the address for the birth of baby.
Second clip are the details showing for father Thomas McGee, an electric cranesman as Denise mentined earlier. From the cert, he did sign the register but the cert Denise has is a copy register and does not show his original signature to compare elsewhere unfortunately
Hello, after a few years trying not to muddle my brain with Family History, I'm having another bash at it.
I now have a copy of Thomas McGee's signature on the birth cert. How do i go about trying to compare/match it to any other documents he might have signed?