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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: niallm155 on Tuesday 01 May 18 10:06 BST (UK)
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So I'm aware of a Frederick Pyefinch who moved to Scotland from Plumbstead, but how do I find out more?
Always figured the family were foreign (Danish) given the odd name and that they showed up in Gourock (Port town) but as it turns out Frederick moved here from England.
How do I go about looking further into origins pre-1900 and are census informations any well kept?
Cheers!
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Welcome! There are lots of people here to help. Can you give us a bit more about Frederick to go on (including dates, even if approximate) - what do you know, and what are you hoping to find out?
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Great! Yeah, absolutely!
So Frederick and Marrion married sometime in the early 1900s and are my Great-Great-Grandparents (I think).
I have this information:
Reference RG11, Piece 747, Folio 122, Page 1
1a Sandy Hill, Woolwich
Piefinch, William Head M 47 Labourer in Arsenal b Ludlow
Piefinch, Fanny Wife F 36 b Bridgeport, Somerset
Piefinch, Alfred Son M 10 Scholar b India
Piefinch, Herbert Son M 7 Scholar b Woolwich
Piefinch, Charles Son M 5 Scholar b Woolwich
Piefinch, William Son M 1yr 10 months b Woolwich
and 10 years on, in 1891
RG12, 533, 52, 48
5 Sandy Hill, Woolwich
Pyefinch, William Head Single(!!) M 55 Royal Arsenal b Ludlow, Shropshire
Pyefinch, Frances F Sister-in-Law Widow F 44 b Bridford, Dorset
Pyefinch, Herbert Son M 16 Metal Turner Royal Arsenal b Woolwich
Pyefinch, Frederick Son M 15 ?? Shop, Royal Arsenal b Woolwich
Pyefinch, William Son M 11 Scholar b Woolwich
Pyefinch, George Son M 9 Scholar b Woolwich
Pyefinch, Charles Son M 6 Scholar b Woolwich
So it would appear my Grandfather (etc) moved here from Plumbstead in England near London, is this as far back as I can trace them?
I've found more information about Pyefinches in Canada (You'll note the spelling seems to have changed from Piefinch to Pyefinch between census also) but I highly doubt the name originated abroad and CAME to England, surely?
Cheers!
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I would also add that there are several differences in the information given by each census, but the core is largely the same, leading me to believe that it's the same family ...?
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Is it Frederick Charles you are interested in (enumerated as Charles in 1881, Frederick in 1891)?
He married Rose Picton in 1897 and they had sons Albert Victor in 1899 and Frederick William in 1903.
Where (and when) do you find your Frederick and Marrion?
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I see.
Well maybe I was being overly hopeful then. It's such an unusual name I had hoped it was the same!
Frederick is my (whatever) Grandfather who moved to Scotland from England, as this Frederick did - my Frederick moved to Gourock.
Albert Victor I have no knowledge of, all I know is that my (whatever -1) Grandfather was Frederick and that he married a Marrion Orr in Gourock.
I had hoped this Frederick who moved to Scotland with Albert was the same Frederick who married Marrion!
Back to the drawing boards I guess!
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You’ll need to use Scotlands People to find the marriage of your Frederick to Marrion Orr.
The good news is that Scottish vital records are excellent - their marriage entry should tell you the names of their parents, which will enable you to take the research further.
Will you update with the results of that? Then we can try to help further.
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I see from the ScotlandsPeople index that the marriage is of Frederick William Pyefinch to Marion Orr in 1927. (You will need to buy credits to see the full entry).
That is promising - as I mentioned, Frederick William b 1903 was one of the sons of Frederick Charles Pyefinch and Rose nee Picton. So you may be on the right track, just a generation out.
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Great, yeah! So I have
PYEFINCH ALBERT FREDERIC
M
1927
567/2 64
Gourock
The parents are
PYEFINCH FREDERICK WILLI
ORR MARION
1927
567/2 41
Gourock
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You're right, seems I am a generation out and a bit of an idiot, so it was Albert Victor! (The son in the English census)
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You're right, seems I am a generation out and a bit of an idiot, so it was Albert!
Albert was the brother of Frederick William. Both were sons of Frederick Charles.
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Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. It doesn’t help that they kept using the names Albert and Frederick!
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I see, so Albert was not the son?
It's okay though it doesn't matter terribly - I'm on the right track! Ignoring that I don't know, how do I go back further given the information from before?
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Well, if it ain't broke...
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Albert Frederic was the son of
Frederick William, one of the sons of
Frederick Charles.
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A good christian family I'm sure :D
This is the right family however, that much we know!
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I had always believed that they were Danish immigrants (given the Pye/Pie) but have now found they're in fact English!
I wonder why the spelling changed, or perhaps if maybe illiteracy was more common before :S
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Spelling variances are extremely common in 19thC (and earlier) records. It’s only when the general level of education rose that people settled on a definitive spelling for their names. Even in educated families you will often find people switching between variant names (e.g. Eleanor in one census becomes Helena in the next) or (as you have already discovered) Frederick Charles is Charles in one census and Frederick in the next.
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The birth of Frederick Charles Pyefinch was registered Mar qtr 1876 Woolwich.
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For goodness sake ???
This is ridiculous :-\
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For goodness sake ???
This is ridiculous :-\
Actually I have just amended above. Some sites have the 1876 registration as Pyefinge, but the GRO Online has it as Pyefinch, with mother’s maiden name Horsford.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
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Something of interest from the censuses you posted at reply no 2.
Frances/Fanny was either William’s wife or his widowed sister in law, depending on which census you read.
They seem to have been having children together. Herbert Edward Pyefinch, son of William John and Frances (Fanny) was baptised in London on 10 June 1874. Also George Richard in 1881.
It was not lawful at the time to marry your in-laws even after widowhood. So (more investigation required) they may have been cohabiting without marriage and having a family together.
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Alright, I'll look into it and probably have an updated (more focused) post later!
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There is an earlier Rootschat thread about the Pyefinch family
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=599529.0
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Thanks bearkat I'll have a look at that also :)