RootsChat.Com
Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: Storm™ on Wednesday 25 April 18 19:58 BST (UK)
-
Hi hopefully this will be simple one .... I stand to be corrected lol. I'm researching a house location. And several of the cottages around here are in the format of Name Cottage. Fairly usual. And the census reflects this. It's Cornwall. Used to be Devon though. Anyway now I'm finding the further I go back the word cottage isn't being used so the format is Name of house then Moor. I mean it was moorland here but were they camping or were they actually just calling the house after the location I've found 3 half a mile apart.
-
Very vague question. No dates, no examples, no more precise location. Are the examples all in the same parish? If so I would expect "Moor" was the name of a hamlet or local feature not a suffix to the house name. But as I said, a very vague question. No dates, no examples, no more precise location.
-
I interpret your point to be that a property known as Nomansland Cottage was previously known Nomansland Moor.
I suggest that in earlier times, particularly in sparsely occupied areas ( principally rural), modest properties did not have a name and identification was established by family name and location ( i e Smith [of] Nomansland Moor) Subsequently it would be named as either Nomansland Cottage or Smiths Cottage.
-
Very vague question. No dates, no examples, no more precise location. Are the examples all in the same parish? If so I would expect "Moor" was the name of a hamlet or local feature not a suffix to the house name. But as I said, a very vague question. No dates, no examples, no more precise location.
[/quote
The obvious conclusion then is perhaps I don't want you to know. That may be for the privacy of the owners of those houses who might not want their house location(s) and names dumped on the Internet.
Date wise I've found examples on the 1851 census. On the 1881 census they have all been changed to Cottage. But thank you.
-
Very vague question. No dates, no examples, no more precise location. Are the examples all in the same parish? If so I would expect "Moor" was the name of a hamlet or local feature not a suffix to the house name. But as I said, a very vague question. No dates, no examples, no more precise location.
The obvious conclusion then is perhaps I don't want you to know. That may be for the privacy of the owners of those houses who might not want their house location(s) and names dumped on the Internet.
Date wise I've found examples on the 1851 census. On the 1881 census they have all been changed to Cottage. But thank you.
??? The data is already on the internet! Census data is public knowledge :-\
-
I interpret your point to be that a property known as Nomansland Cottage was previously known Nomansland Moor.
I suggest that in earlier times, particularly in sparsely occupied areas ( principally rural), modest properties did not have a name and identification was established by family name and location ( i e Smith [of] Nomansland Moor) Subsequently it would be named as either Nomansland Cottage or Smiths Cottage.
Yes exactly that.
What I had been attempting to do was ascertain if they were actually in a building or if they were located on the Moor living in some sort of tent/shack/temporary structure like a caravan.
For instance the census taker inquires as to who they are ... they are living in tents or whatever on rhe moorland and they explain they are working on the nearby farm. So the census taker has just borrowed the nearby farms name and added location.
Or was it the practice as you describe that houses had no names so they aquire a name from the location on which they are stood. In this case name of nearby farm followed by Moor (location).
Because I would like to know if there was a house there in 1841 because in 1881 it states name (name of nearby farm in this case) then cottage.
-
Very vague question. No dates, no examples, no more precise location. Are the examples all in the same parish? If so I would expect "Moor" was the name of a hamlet or local feature not a suffix to the house name. But as I said, a very vague question. No dates, no examples, no more precise location.
The obvious conclusion then is perhaps I don't want you to know. That may be for the privacy of the owners of those houses who might not want their house location(s) and names dumped on the Internet.
Date wise I've found examples on the 1851 census. On the 1881 census they have all been changed to Cottage. But thank you.
??? The data is already on the internet! Census data is public knowledge :-\
Yes it is .... but it doesn't locate me ... to it
-
There won't be anyone living there in the 1800s who is still alive and living there today. ;) :)
I would suggest that there is no hard and fast rule. The enumerator may have taken the householders word for what they told him, or made his own best judgement of the address. I have seen addresses such as "in the barn", or "caravan" but the descriptions would have varied.
If you are willing to pass on the address we may be able to help you further, but if it was me, I would look at some old maps to see if I could narrow down the date the cottage appeared (this can sometimes bear fruit), and sometimes dwellings were named on old maps.
You can always send a PM with the address to anyone willing to help you privately. ;)
-
There won't be anyone living there in the 1800s who is still alive and living there today. ;) :)
I would suggest that there is no hard and fast rule. The enumerator may have taken the householders word for what they told him, or made his own best judgement of the address. I have seen addresses such as "in the barn", or "caravan" but the descriptions would have varied.
If you are willing to pass on the address we may be able to help you further, but if it was me, I would look at some old maps to see if I could narrow down the date the cottage appeared (this can sometimes bear fruit), and sometimes dwellings were named on old maps.
You can always send a PM with the address to anyone willing to help you privately. ;)
An address isn't required thank you. It was merely a question of terminology used on census returns. And as all anyone can do with a specific address is look at the same images as I am it would have to come down to experience as to what was meant by that term.
I had wondered if it was a common practice that moor meant a form of living rough or as you have stated a possible judgment call on behalf of the census taker and that there was actually a building there.
As the answers given have been less about technical practice seen and more about common sense assumptions while it doesn't tell me what I would like to know it does answer the question so thank you both.
Unfortunately there are no maps available detailed enough to show the area I am researching. I had suspected the house built in about 1880. .. since finding the census details I can place people there in 1851 which is great news ... however under what circumstances. Maybe the 1841 census will hold a clue ... which at present is proving a pig to pin down. In fact ancestry has been a bit shoddy in that regard with only 1851 and 1881 showing any results. And no images of the 1851 census available only text. After about an hour I found all census years bar 1841 and images for all. Quite poor.
-
In the 1881 census for Cornwall there are numerous entries where the "Road, Street, etc., and number or name of House" is given as ****** Moor
Stan
-
In the 1881 census for Cornwall there are numerous entries where the "Road, Street, etc., and number or name of House" is given as ****** Moor
Stan
Stan you're a star. I did wonder but because I've never had this on a census before I wanted to be sure.
Since then I've located it on the 1841 census and several others lol. The terms that have been used to describe it have been
Last house along lane.
Name Croft
Name Moor
Na me Gate.
All valid given its location and so again thank you very much.
So it's 40 years older than I thought and may well be older.
If only there were another way to get further back.
-
If only there were another way to get further back.
Do you have access to the deeds of the property you are interested in? They should record the history.
Are there copyholder records for the area?
-
Have you searched tithe records? Accompanying maps are detailed, showing every field.
Possibly leases.
Each census enumerator filled in a page recording numbers of people not in houses i.e. outhouse, tents etc.
-
Have you searched tithe records? Accompanying maps are detailed, showing every field.
Possibly leases.
Each census enumerator filled in a page recording numbers of people not in houses i.e. outhouse, tents etc.
I havent I am afraid ..... I have heard of tithe maps but thats as far as I knew. How do you get hold of tithe maps for the area you are researching. I have ancestry .... but I have a feeling you are going to say records office locally held lol.
-
The Genealogist (subscription website) has all the English and Welsh tithe maps online.
Otherwise, the county record office will have them - phone to check they are open/accessible/don't have to be ordered in advance etc.
Also Old maps can be viewed via various websites, some free of charge eg https://maps.nls.uk/os/6inch-england-and-wales/ and also use google for specific areas since you don't want to say where you're interested in.
Also try Genuki for the area of interest (use Google)
-
The Genealogist (subscription website) has all the English and Welsh tithe maps online.
Otherwise, the county record office will have them - phone to check they are open/accessible/don't have to be ordered in advance etc.
Also Old maps can be viewed via various websites, some free of charge eg https://maps.nls.uk/os/6inch-england-and-wales/ and also use google for specific areas since you don't want to say where you're interested in.
Also try Genuki for the area of interest (use Google)
Thank you. Actually after the previous post I did have a quick look online and as suspected they are digitising some of them but the vast majority are held at the records office. Its appointment only and you have to book quite a way in advance. So that had to go one the back burner for the time being. Walked away from laptop to make a coffee and then I froze .....
.... The area wasnt Cornwall back then it was Devon! Tried again online and Devon have them all located online and for free .... the term moor is used to name various fields ..... but the property I am interested in isnt on those and has its own name. Which is brilliant because it gives me a name to trace to see how the field got its name. But as the property is in that field and the people living at the "moor" have their own field I have to see where they were living. Cant wait.
Conclusion so far is that the house did'nt exist in 1841 ... it may have existed in 1851 oinwards.
Thank you guys all so much this has been a very very useful if steep learning curve. Take Care.