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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: goldie61 on Saturday 14 April 18 08:39 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help in finding a birth registation please.
It is for a Florence Goddard.
She is on the 1881 Census with her grandparents Charles and Anna Goddard in Thingoe, Troston, Suffolk.
She is given as being aged 9, and born in Croyden Surrey, and is ‘Florence A C” Goddard. (so born about 1872).
Later, on her first marriage in 1894 to Stevenson Macdonald in Acton, Middlesex, she says she is Florence Amy Cousins Goddard, aged 22. (born 1872).
On her second marriage to Alexander James Macdonald (Stevenson’s brother) in New Zealand in 1807, she is ‘aged 38’ and was ‘born at sea’.
On both marriages she says her father was ‘Charles Murray Cousins Goddard’ a naval captain (deceased in 1894).
I can find no trace of her birth, or even a registration, or any trace of a Charles Murray Cousins Goddard, either in the navy or not.
On her second marriage, she gives her mother’s name as Sarah Goddard, nee Canham.
Canham was the maiden name of her GRANDMOTHER Anna, who married her grandfather Charles (of the 1881 Census), in 1839 at Thingoe, Suffolk. They did indeed have a daughter named Sarah (Goddard), who would have been the right age to have a daughter Florence around 1872.
I have Sarah on later Censuses. She married later on and had no children.
I’m thinking Florence was Sarah’s illegitimate daughter, and it would seem this whole story about her father was just that - a made up story.
Having said that, she should still have been registered around 1872, but I can’t find it, even with the ‘maiden names’ given in the gro.gov.uk site.
Any ideas gratefully received! Many thanks.
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Hiya
I too am looking for a birth registration for somebody born in 1873, I am told it wasn't compulsory for births to be registered in this time frame. Hopefully yours is
Carolyn
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Hiya
I too am looking for a birth registration for somebody born in 1873, I am told it wasn't compulsory for births to be registered in this time frame. Hopefully yours is
Carolyn
It was compulsory but until 1875 the onus was on Registrar to go out and get the information and quite a lot were missed. From 1875 it was the responsibility of the parents to go and register the birth.
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I still live in hope Jebber of breaking down my wall .... one day.... when he wants to be found
As for the original post, if Sarah was illegitimate then her birth could have been unregistered in this loophole, I have also come across in my own tree two illegitimate births that were registered by the Grandmother, the transcriptions showed grandmothers name so it came up in different searches, but when you looked closer at it the mothers name was there too....Just a thought.
Good Luck
Carolyn
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Sarah Goddard is working as servant in Croydon in 1871 for Cousins household. Head of household is Charles Cousins
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I think he's Charles Murray Lugger Cousins
added
he was a widower at time of '71 census but married again a few months after (6 july 1871).
If Florence was 9 when 1881 census was taken (3 April 1881), her birth would be between 4 April 1871 and 3 April 1872 (if my maths is right), conception between late June 1870 and late June 1871.
Hmmm...
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Hiya
I too am looking for a birth registration for somebody born in 1873, I am told it wasn't compulsory for births to be registered in this time frame. Hopefully yours is
Carolyn
It was compulsory but until 1875 the onus was on Registrar to go out and get the information and quite a lot were missed. From 1875 it was the responsibility of the parents to go and register the birth.
The parents were also expected to register the birth, and the 1836 Registration Act made it clear that they were permitted to do so.
Section XIX of the act states that the “Father or Mother of any Child ........ may*, within forty-two Days next after the Day of such Birth .........give Notice of such Birth ....... to the Registrar of the District;" In this context may means to have the opportunity, or be permitted by circumstances not to wait for the registrar.
In fact if the birth was not registered within forty-two days there was a fee of two Shillings and Sixpence entitlement for the Superintendent Registrar, and five shillings for the registrar, which is probably why some births were not registered.
Stan
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Sarah Goddard is working as servant in Croydon in 1871 for Cousins household. Head of household is Charles Cousins
That's great Lizzie! :)
I think you've solved the problem.
Thank you so much.
I did look for a registration under the name 'Cousins' as well as Goddard and Canham, but there does not seem to be one. Keeping it quiet no doubt.
I see Charles Murray Lugger Cousins had about a dozen children (not counting the probable one by Sarah)! One of which was christened 'Florence Amy', and Sarah named her daughter .............. Florence Amy!
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Have you tried checking for a birth of 'female GODDARD' in 1871/72? In case Florence hadn't been named yet. Sarah could have travelled away from Croydon to have her child so check all counties (this doesn't explain the 'at sea' mention - but maybe Florence didn't really know where she was born or chose to lie.
If you use the index on the GRO website, you'll be able to see if any of the birth registrations didn't have a different mothers maiden name, so probably ruling out some of the registrations?
Might be worth a try?
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Thanks Angelfish.
I tried all counties, and all females, but didn't come up with anything that really fitted.
Thanks for the suggestion. :)
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Hi
Florence was my grandmother and I have been down all the same paths that you have. The only extra story I have is that my sister was told that she was born in Florence and that is why she is called that. This is also what the 1891 census says. On Alexander’s death certificate it says she was born in Naples, Italy.
I really like the proposal here that links her to Charles Murray Lugger Cousins. I had come to the conclusion that she was probably illegitimate.
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Hallo
I share your frustration again in our family a puzzle since 1964 when my parents were told there was no certificate for my grandmother. When my mum told her mother in law they hadn't been able to trace her she didn't say too much. I started family history some 20 years later with a few facts and was up and down those birth indexes then on reels making notes. I asked on forums and still couldn't "crack" it. A couple of years ago I was able to show that the "story" my grandmother had been told she about her birth parents when she was born (1881/82) was actually not true. I eventually found her birth certificate at the suggestion of an expert on a forum to try this surname and after 50+ years I am satisfied I have a partial explanation having obtained a birth certificate which shows she was registered under a name I wouldn't have thought of looking! I think there was a definite concoction of the facts made up by the 2 "aunts" bought up by her one of whom was actually as we suspected was grandmas mother! As the surname was Whitbread and the certificate was under Morley!!! I stood not a chance. However I would suggest if you have any random names that suddenly pop up in the family then check this out in the indexes. My grandmothers uncle George suddenly started using this surname Morley as a middle name out of the blue around the time grandma was born now why, I have no idea. The birth certificate showed her mother as being married to a Mr Morley but no marriage has ever been found. I think like many families they "ducked and dived" to survive and told fibs and lies! Did my grandma know about the circumstances of her birth I am not sure she did. She was a sweet kind and above all open minded individual. When my mums sister met my uncle from Pakistan and had 2 children by him but wasn't married in the late 1940s my mum was concerned about telling my grandma. Grandma simply said to mum when told "well dear whatever makes them happy" My grandma was adored by my uncle from Pakistan and always asked after her.
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Have you been able to find any baptisms of Sarah daughter of Charles and Anne Goddard or her siblings in St Mary's at Troston? I can't find the baptism register for the period online. Perhaps they attended the Methodist Church in the area? Might also be worth looking for a baptism of Florence Goddard there too.
If this were my family I'd be almost convinced that Florence was the illegitimate daughter of Sarah, and that information Florence later gave on her marriage certificates and suchlike was a mixture of truth, information about her wider family, and tales. She certainly wouldn't have been alone in doing that. :)
There was a female GODDARD whos birth was registered Petworth reg dist, 1872, with no mother's maiden name. Have you been able to establish who that was or what happened to them? - incase Florence was born there, Sarah having been sent away or possibly staying with relatives?