RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Cotton Reel on Tuesday 10 April 18 19:36 BST (UK)
-
Hello Rootschatters,
I'm new here and hoping with some help from you experienced researchers
that I can solve this mystery. I have a subscription to FindMyPast, but they don't seem to have Parish Registers of Leeds Churches.
My great grandparents James and Mary Elizabeth Morris married in Leeds
Yorkshire in 1881 and lived there all their married life. They had 4 children listed in the 1891 and 1901 censuses. In 1911 there were 3 of them still living at home, my grandmother was working away though still single.
I have always known of these 4, but never heard about a 5th child born, who was still living in 1911 as stated on the census form. Great grandfather was a policeman on the first two censuses, in 1911 was a police pensioner and casual attendant.
Hope I have given you enough info to help me.
Kind regards to all :)
-
Hi Cotton Reel
You haven't told us where they were in 1911. Or names of any of the children. Or where and when they were born. Neither have you said when and where the parents were born!
Could you supply the Census Reference please?
Cheers
Giggsy ;D
-
Hi Cotton Reel, welcome to Rootschat :)
If I have the correct family, Mary Elizabeth's maiden name was COTTON (as I'm sure you already know).
Have you tried searching the GRO Index for births of children with the surname Morris in the area in the relevant time frame with mother's maiden name Cotton.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
You need to register but it's free to search the indexes.
-
Thank you for replies and welcome Giggsy and Jool.
I've only been doing my family tree for a few months and am very much a
beginner. I would give the Census Reference if only I knew where to find it!
James was born in Hull 1855 and Mary Elizabeth Cotton (you were Correct
Jool) Woodbridge Suffolk. The children were all born in Leeds Martha 1882,
Hyacinth 1884, James Clifford 1886 and Leslie 1891.
Kind regards
-
Hi Cotton Reel, now that you have confirmed the family, here's the link to the 1911 census transcription on Family Search, just to help others who may be searching.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWV7-67L
-
Presumably your grandmother was Hyacinth, who the GRO shows as Morris/Colton, if you are doing searches to cross-check.
-
What an odd one. I can't see a birth entry either. Four of the children have christening entries on Ancestry but no unknown child there either. I am wondering vaguely if number 5 was a pre-marriage child (one of my ancestors counted her illegitimate as a child of her marriage, although hubby was living in a different house at the time and he did not!), an illegitimate child of one of the daughters (although that wouldn't account for where the child was, but would explain the lack of Morris/Cotton birth)...
Or an outside chance that they simply couldn't count? ::)
-
Those explanations that Ayesha gave are ones that I also thought were possible.
-
There is a child Florence Elizabeth Cotton born in Woodbridge in 1876 no mmn living with her grandparents, James and Martha in the 1881 census, could this be the 5th child?
-
There is a child Florence Elizabeth Cotton born in Woodbridge in 1876 no mmn living with her grandparents, James and Martha in the 1881 census, could this be the 5th child?
Baptism Florence Elizabeth Foster Cotton 7th May 1876 Woodbridge Mother Elizabeth address Theatre Street.
Keyboard86
-
Could this fifth child have been a still born one? The gaps between children are big enough.
I had a case in a family that I was researching. The 1911 stated 11 born 8 living 3 died. I knew about ten children but not the 11th. However despite intensive searching of the GRO no 11th child could be found. I came to the conclusion that the parents had included a still born child.
I had to assume that perhaps they misunderstood the question about children on the 1911 census.
-
I wondered that, but it doesn't make sense when you consider that they didn't account for it in the "children that have died" column :/
-
James and Martha Cotton did not have a daughter named Elizabeth, only Mary Elizabeth, and they did indeed live in Theatre Street, Ipswich.
Having found James Morris on 1881 census in Leeds, since they married very soon after I looked for Mary Elizabeth and eventually found her working in Leeds but listed as Elizabeth Cotton!
So it seems pretty clear that grand-daughter Florence Elizabeth Foster Cotton born in 1876 was indeed a child of their daughter Mary Elizabeth who it appears was calling herself plain Elizabeth between 1876 and 1881.
Perhaps Mary Elizabeth insisted this child was counted too. In 1891 said daughter Florence was working as a servant in Yorkshire too, at Ilkley, but I can't seem to see any further trace of her after 1891.
Annette
-
In 1891 said daughter Florence was working as a servant in Yorkshire too, at Ilkley, but I can't seem to see any further trace of her after 1891.
There is a Florence E Cotterill born Woodbridge 1875 on the 1901 census living in Hackney, husband George . There is a marriage between George Cotterill and Florence MORRIS. There doesn't appear to be a Florence Morris born in Woodbridge - could be that Florence has taken on James' name?
-
Marriage at St Mary, Stanwell, Middlesex
20 June 1900
George William Cotterill bachelor aged 24 shop assistant of Stanwell
s/o John Cotterill
Florence Elizabeth Morris spinster aged 24 of Stanwell
d/o James Morris policeman
-
Hi looking good, the couple had one daughter Mary Florence Cotterell March qtr 1901 Hackney 1b 506 mmn Morris, Florence E Cotterell died Sept qtr 1947 Dartford 5b 336 aged 71
Mary Florence Cotterell was buried December 1952 St Paulinus, Crayford, Kent aged 51 address 8, Edendale Road.
Florence Elizabeth Cotterell was also buried 24th September 1947 St Paulinus aged 71, address 8, Edendale Road, Crayford
The Florence Elizabeth F Cotton was registered June qtr 1876 Woodbridge, the Florence E Cotterell in 1939 Crayford was born 12th March 1876
Keyboard86
-
I had a case in a family that I was researching. The 1911 stated 11 born 8 living 3 died. I knew about ten children but not the 11th. However despite intensive searching of the GRO no 11th child could be found. I came to the conclusion that the parents had included a still born child.
it is very interesting
-
Many many thanks to all who have searched the various records for me.
I can see from the info you found that the 5th child must be Mary's illegitimate daughter. If they had read the census instructions thoroughly - I probably would never have known of her existence.
Thank you one and all for your time. :)