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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: jibhauler14 on Tuesday 10 April 18 10:30 BST (UK)
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I have a relative John Turley 1575-1661 lived in Sedgley, who appears to have married a Catherine Oldenburg Princess of Norway and Denmark 1580-1675 which leaves me wondering what was she doing in Sedgley where she is said to have died, any way I can prove either way maybe church records any advice appreciated..
Jibhauler
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An online tree suggests he married Johan Oldenburg in 1604. Where does your information come from :-\
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Lots of online trees show a John Turley marriage to Catherine Oldenburg on 1 February 1628.
However the parish record transcriptions show John Turley marrying Elizabeth Okely in Sedgley on that day.
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It is interesting the high level of supposition regarding this woman. She seems to be missing from all the "notable" sources of historic information regarding this supposed family.
Malky
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Unfortunately the John Turley that married Elizabeth Oakley aint the right Turley our guy was from 1575 to 1661, apart from other web sites etc-- Catherine Oldenburg is mentioned on Geneanet as having married John Turley and dies in Sedgley, just thought there would be a link to records in Sedgley area where I could confirm either way, thanks for your trouble will look at the problem from a different angle...
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Catherine Oldenburg is mentioned on Geneanet as having married John Turley and dies in Sedgley
What's the source for that though? A submitted family tree?
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This is the information that is on MyHertitage about this person
Catherine Princess of Turley (born Denmark), 1580 - 1675
Catherine Princess of Turley (born Denmark) was born on month day 1580, at birth place, to Frederick II King of Denmark and Norway and Queen Sophia of Norway (born Mecklenburg-Gustrow).
Frederick was born on July 1 1534, in Haderslevhus.
Queen was born on September 4 1557, in Wismar, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Germany.
Catherine had 11 siblings: Mary "Queen of Scotland" England (born Stuart), Johan Garmann and 9 other siblings.
Catherine married John Turley in 1600, at age 19 at marriage place.
John was born in 1575, in Sedgley, Staffordshire, England.
They had 8 children: William Turley, Anne Turley and 6 other children.
Catherine married Simeon Leete in 1595, at age 14 at marriage place.
Simeon was born on June 23 1573, in Eversden, Cambridgeshire, England.
They had 2 children: John Leete and one other child.
Catherine passed away in 1675, at age 94 at death place.
Needless so say there is no source.
Frederick II is known to have had 8 children as follows
1. Elizabeth of Denmark (25 August 1573 – 19 June 1625), married in 1590 to Henry Julius, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg.
2. Anne of Denmark (12 December 1574 – 2 March 1619), married on 23 November 1589 to King James VI of Scotland (later also King James I of England).
3. Christian IV, King of Denmark and Norway (12 April 1577 – 28 February 1648)
4. Ulrik of Denmark (30 December 1578 – 27 March 1624 in Rühn), last Bishop of the old Schleswig see (1602–1624), and as Ulrich II, Administrator of the Prince-Bishopric of Schwerin (1603–1624). He married Lady Catherine Hahn-Hinrichshagen.
5. John August of Denmark (1579–1579), died in infancy.
6. Augusta of Denmark (8 April 1580 – 5 February 1639), married on 30 August 1596 to John Adolf, Duke of Holstein-Gottorp.
7. Hedwig of Denmark (5 August 1581 – 26 November 1641), married on 12 September 1602 to Christian II, Elector of Saxony
8. John of Denmark, Prince of Schleswig-Holstein (9 July 1583 – 28 October 1602)
Note there is no Catherine and not a sufficient gap for a missing Catherine to be born in 1580
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Could one ask what the source for this later information regarding the family is ??
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Could one ask what the source for this later information regarding the family is ??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II_of_Denmark , or
http://roglo.eu/roglo?lang=en;i=4677631
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Thanks for the info it appears even the sources quoted cannot agree on the number of children / siblings......... My Heritage seems to be at best a skeleton needing flesh..
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Fair enough ::)
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There is supposition that an affair between Frederick II and Anne Corfitzdatter Hardenbeg let to the possibility of child(ren) Catherine perhaps being one of them, but so far, there seems to be little or no documented proof of this.
Considering that Frederick II married Sophia of Mecklenburg Gustrow in 1572 on July 20th, and Catherine's birth was reported as on 8 Apr 1580 was he having an affair with a lost love during his marriage. Will we ever know??
"1573 Acting County Sheriff Anne Corfitzdatter Hardenberg of Helsingborg (Sweden)
Of high nobility, she was chamber-maid to Queen Dorothea 1557-71, and here she got to know king Frederik II (king from 1559) who fell in love with her, and wanted to marry her, but this met widespread opposition. In 1572 she married Councillor of the Realm, Oluf Mouritsen Krognos, who died after only six months marriage. She lived at her dowry Bregentved and managed to keep her husband’s family at distance with the help of the royal family. She (d. 1589).
Malky
Excerpt from http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/Governors.htm
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Something in reply #6 form davidft puzzles me.
"Catherine had 11 siblings: Mary 'Queen of Scots' England (born Stuart) ...." Who she? ???
The second list has 8 children of King Frederick. Number 2 is Anne of Denmark who became wife of King James 6th of Scotland & 1st of England, so Ann was Queen of Scotland and England. I know fine well who she was. Mother of King James was Mary, Queen of Scots. But who was meant by the other "Mary 'Queen of Scots' England"?
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If you read the contents contained in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Queen_of_Scots
including :- Claim to the English throne
but having read the article, you will notice a discrepancy in the parentage.
Malky
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If you read the contents contained in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Queen_of_Scots
including :- Claim to the English throne
but having read the article, you will notice a discrepancy in the parentage.
Malky
I know all about Mary, Queen of Scots. I once had an individual escorted tour of Holyrood Palace
(it was a quiet day). I've examined the notorious bloodstain. I simply don't understand the suggestion that she was a sister of this alleged Danish princess. That would make her a step-sister to her own daughter-in-law. I know royalty had convoluted alliances back then but that's carrying things a bit far. (Roll eyes)
Do you mean discrepancy in the parentage on My Heritage? I'm with you there.
Another family tree has earlier birth and death years for Catherine. Another gives her a prior husband. I have doubts about anyone on a family tree who lived to such a great age unless dates are documented.
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Something in reply #6 form davidft puzzles me.
"Catherine had 11 siblings: Mary 'Queen of Scots' England (born Stuart) ...." Who she? ???
I have no idea. The purpose of posting the MyHeritage data was my closing line to it i.e.
"Needless so say there is no source." That in my opinion was the crux of the matter.
Similarly in posting the 8 children of Frederick II the main purpose was the closing line
"Note there is no Catherine and not a sufficient gap for a missing Catherine to be born in 1580"
Alas the OP seems to have dismissed that out of hand as they did the two links I gave. I know there was a discrepancy in the two links I gave but there was a whole lot more which the OP either ignored or did not pick up on. That is a shame as they provided a way for them to try and progress the claims of "Princess Catherine." So in short I decided to opt out of this thread and have only replied in order to answer your specific querry.
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Thanks for the info it appears even the sources quoted cannot agree on the number of children / siblings......... My Heritage seems to be at best a skeleton needing flesh..
Seems to me they are skeletons with limbs attached which belong to other skeletons. ;D
Didn't the British Museum have a dinosaur on prominent display for years and was eventually proved to be parts of 2 species? Even experts aren't always right.
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I too am wondering why a princess of Denmark would marry in Sedgley.
I found an article a while ago that said that Catherine was the illegitimate daughter of the king and one of the ladies in waiting of the court, Anne Hardenburg. Catherine was subsequently banished but no explanation of how she ended up in Sedgley.
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I too am wondering why a princess of Denmark would marry in Sedgley.
I found an article a while ago that said that Catherine was the illegitimate daughter of the king and one of the ladies in waiting of the court, Anne Hardenburg. Catherine was subsequently banished but no explanation of how she ended up in Sedgley.
Flattybasher mentioned Anne in reply #11.
What is the source of Catherine's death in Sedgeley?
Perhaps Catherine was in Britain as a lady-in-waiting to Queen Anne, daughter of King Frederick.
Who was Simon Leete, Catherien's 1st husband, according to My Heritage tree?
Who was John Turley of Sedgeley? Was he the sort of man who might have married a relative of the Danish royal family?
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Who was Simon Leete, Catherien's 1st husband, according to My Heritage tree?
Simon or Symeon Leete of Eversden, Cambridgeshire, born 1573 is on several online trees.
Anc. FT has him alive 1573-1666 and married to Sophie, Queen of Denmark of Mecklenburg-gastrow (1557-1631) ???
One on another website has his dates 1573-1655, son of Robert Leete & Alice Grundy (1523-1598). Source Anc. tree.
Family Search Simeon Leete 1573-1655, b. & d. Eversden, Cambridgeshire, parents Robert Leete & Alice Grundy (1545-1597).Married 1600 Eversden to Julia Downs (1573-1597)
WikiTree Simeon Grundy "Symeon" Leete 1573-1655. Son of Robert Leete. Married Agnes Pasley at Histon, Cambs. 1610. "May have had another wife." Source: The Eversden Branch of the family of Leete, printed 1906. There's a link to the source on Internet Archive. The printed tree on the source has no wife named for Simeon. It says he was a churchwarden.
There's information about Robert Leete, Simon's father on jeanie's genealogy. According to this, Robert was a university- educated man and land-holder.
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Just to confirm I have looked through all saints church Sedgley parish records 1558-1685 previously and although there are several Turley/Turly mentioned I cannot find any mention of a Catherine Turley either being married or buried, also looked through non com church and chapel records with the same result, so have rightly or wrongly concluded she is a 'pillenwerfer' however quite happy to nip over to Sedgley if proof exists..
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I have a relative John Turley 1575-1661 lived in Sedgley, who appears to have married a Catherine Oldenburg Princess of Norway and Denmark 1580-1675 which leaves me wondering what was she doing in Sedgley where she is said to have died, any way I can prove either way maybe church records any advice appreciated..
Jibhauler
I too have this ancestor and have come across the same suggested marriage. It doesn't appear to be a valid claim. However, she may be a daughter-in-law of Frederick II as one of his sons did marry a Catherine who was widowed in 1624 and left desolate. She remarried at least once. For fun I'm following this line of discovery. But, I don't expect to find much. For reference her name was Catherine Hahn-Hinrichshagen. She was from an old noble family of Hahn. If I learn anything interesting, I will share. Again, I'm not expecting to find that she is my ancestor.
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Welcome to RootsChat, Rock Turner.
Just read through the thread again. a bit of fun.
The extract you posted is probably copyright which isn't allowed on RootsChat. You can remove it by clicking "Modify" to edit your post. You can edit a post up to 24 hours of posting. After that time you have to ask a moderator to edit on your behalf.
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I have a relative John Turley 1575-1661 lived in Sedgley, who appears to have married a Catherine Oldenburg Princess of Norway and Denmark 1580-1675 which leaves me wondering what was she doing in Sedgley where she is said to have died, any way I can prove either way maybe church records any advice appreciated..
Jibhauler
I too have this ancestor and have come across the same suggested marriage. It doesn't appear to be a valid claim. However, she may be a daughter-in-law of Frederick II as one of his sons did marry a Catherine who was widowed in 1624 and left desolate. She remarried at least once. For fun I'm following this line of discovery. But, I don't expect to find much. For reference her name was Catherine Hahn-Hinrichshagen. She was from an old noble family of Hahn. If I learn anything interesting, I will share. Again, I'm not expecting to find that she is my ancestor.
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My take on this thread is a) If an online tree claims their ancestor is Prince/princess of something then unless they are a Duke or Dutchess themselves they have some exlaining to do. b) if a document such as a parish record says Harry Smith married the Princess of Sweden in Walsall then I would still want more corroborative evidence to prove somebody back then wasn't telling fibs.
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In my family tree, the John Turley that married Princess Catherine Oxenburg was the father of John Turley that married Elizabeth Oakley. Catherine's mother was the second wife of the King and she was one of his youngest daughters. I think that the Turleys were fairly affluent so must have been reasonably well connected.