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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: deejayEn on Sunday 08 April 18 16:07 BST (UK)
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I have been sent an old photo of two soldiers in WWI, one of whom could be my ancestor. He is pictured with a pal, although it could be his brother. However I thought he was too young to join up as he was only born in 1902 but the soldiers here both look older than 16.
Can anyone identify the regiment from the cap badges and tell me something about the uniforms they are wearing?
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Could be Rifle Brigade.
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Did they have Post Office connections? The badge looks like the 8th Battalion London Regiment (Post Office Rifles) which is very similar to the Rifle Brigade badge but has fewer scrolls around the laurels.
The uniform is standard WW1 uniform with (I think) 1908 pattern webbing with ammunition pouches.
Do you have a name that could be checked in case records survive?
MaxD
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Possibly the 17th. (Poplar & Stepney).
I can't detect any scrolling & doesn't look like there's a bow as per 19th.
The background although blurred looks overseas, Palestine or Suez maybe.
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We think it might be Frederick Charles Lay but I'm in doubt as he was born in 1902. He has an older brother George Henry Lay (b1989) but he was in the Lancashire Fusiliers. Still the regiment might help us work out who it might be, so thanks for your help.
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Nothing leaps off the pages I'm afraid. Born 1902 would be a stretch for war service (although not totally unknown) so no medal records would show if this is a later enlistment
MaXD
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I'm replying to my post from a few years ago. The soldier on the left, which we are pretty sure is Fred Lay, was born in 1902, so it's unlikley that this dates from WWI as he looks older than 16. But it's possible he signed up to the Army after the war, in the 1920s. His older brother joined the army in 1920 so its likely that he may have followed suit soon after. He emigrated to Australia in 1927 so it must be before that.
What is the minimum number of years you could sign up for?
Do the uniforms match up with what soldier used in the 1920s?
Does anyone have any new information about which regiment it might be?
Is there a connection to the post office?
Also where is the best place to look for records of solders who signed up in the 1920s.
Any help would be appreciated.
I am attaching a photo of Fred for people to see if they agree that it is the same person as the man on the left here.
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Side by side for comparison
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Identifying the Cap Badge may not tell all. After WW1 my Father re-enlisted with the Sherwood Foresters which is where I thought he had served during the war but having ordered copies of his full service records I discovered that he had originally enlisted with the Northumberland Fusliers, was then transferred to the East Lancs and later to the Yorkshire regiment, all during WW1. He never spoke of the war but often spoke of his time with the Sherwoods. The Service Records give valuable information and are well worth the outlay - and also explain why his medals were not with the Sherwoods. Any direct family member can apply for them and I'm still ploughing my way through my Father's records which make fascinating reading. Hope this helps
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This chap is in the 7th or 8th Battalion of the Yorkshire regiment. They were territorials and had their own cap badge design.
In my opinion its WW1 era and not the 1920s.
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Thank you
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My guess is 7th Batt Sherwood Foresters (Robin Hood Bn)
7/8th Leeds Rifles West Yorks Regiment the wreath joins up on the cap badge
Ady
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7/8th was a post war amalgamation so it is the 7th or 8th.
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This badge looks like one of the London Regiments but they were mostly Rifle Regiments and normally wore black horn buttons.
I am pleased there there is a Sherwood Forester connection because:
The 7th Robin Hood Battalion (Territorial Force) of The Sherwood Foresters had a badge such as these two soldiers are wearing. It was issued in both white metal and blackened metal.
Geoff
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This is an update on my earlier post:
I recently checked the 1921 Census and saw that on the address of my grandfather's family there was a Francis Michael Killoran listed as visitor. His occupation was shown as a soldier and he also worked for the Post Office, so there is an connection between one of the men in this photo and the Post Office. I think Francis may be the man on the left and not Fred Lay (my great uncle ) who I originaly thought it might be. I think it's possible that Francis was visiting the family as he was a pal of my other great uncle Albert Lay (b1900) who was a soldier.
Does anyone have any useful links or information about Post Office regiments during WWI?
I now think that it is Albert Lay on the right here. I'm not sure if he worked for the Post Office but he was certainly a soldier in the early 1920s when was listed a a rifleman in the Infantry in India and it is possible that he signed up to be a soldier earlier in WWI even though he was below age. Please see below two photos of Albert, I think that facially he is the same as the man on the right in the main photo above.
Any help/comments would be welcome.
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If it helps there was just 1 Albert Lay KRRC:
Pte. 19450 20th. Btn.
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Yes that's him (it tioes with his regime t on the 1921 Census) but I'm wondering if he signed up during WWI.
Does anyone agree with me that it could be Albert Lay on the right of the main photo?And what age is he?
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I'm wondering if he signed up during WWI
Yes.
His Medal card shows he received the BW & Victory medals.
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I'm wondering if he signed up during WWI
Yes.
His Medal card shows he received the BW & Victory medals.
Find My Past hold a service record for this man. It shows:
Residence -- 3 Button Street, Frome, Somerset
Age -- 19 years 2 months
Height -- 5 feet 6 inches
Eyes -- Blue
Hair -- Light Brown
Complexion -- Fresh
Next of Kin -- Joseph Lay (father)
Date of enlistment -- 5/2/1916
Regiment -- 20th Battalion, King's Royal Rifle Corps
Joined battalion -- London 7/2/1916
Embarked -- Southampton 27/3/1916
With British Expeditionary Force -- 30/3/1916
To 20th Infantry Base Depot, Etaples, France (from 'In the field') -- 5/5/1916
8/5/1916 -- Transferred to England (under age) Authority CR No 5544/3270/A, dated 2/5/1916
His Statement of Services form states 19/5/1916 Discharged having made a mis-statement as to age on enlistment Para 392 VI King's Regulations
His record confirms that he was awarded the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
If deejayEn has access to Find My Past, the link below will take you to his record.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f007276714%2f02409&parentid=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f7276714%2f236%2f2409
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There were plenty of underage boys who fought in the war
the youngest I'm aware was 15 but 14!
He must have been pretty much the youngest recipient of campaign medals.
You can discount the first photo but the one in tropical kit could be him.
He's not wearing his ribbons so may be taken before he received them
in 1920-21.
His helmet plate is too indistinct to id his Regt.
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Thanks to both of you but the medal recipient is the wrong Albert Lay, mine was from London, Kentish Town and his dad was Walter.
That is my Albert Lay in the sepia photos but I'm trying to see if anyone agress with me that it is also him on the right in the top photo.
Also can anyone yet confirm whch regiment the two soldiers are in?