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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: rainy on Sunday 08 April 18 09:55 BST (UK)

Title: Harold Stanley
Post by: rainy on Sunday 08 April 18 09:55 BST (UK)
Helping a friend who does not use computer and would like to find out about her grandparent's families.
Harold Stanley married Alice Lynn.
They died in New Zealand.
 I have looked at www.freebmd.UK at marriages and they married march 1916 Abergavenny, Wales.                 
 Harold Stanley was 78years when he died in 1970 and Alice Stanley nee Lynn I am not sure as several Alice Stanley's in bdm.NZ  There is no headstone to check.

Have also looked at freebmd.UK for births for Harold Stanley and this could be Dec 1891 Abergavenny Wales.
Also Alice Lynn maybe born June 1897 Abergavenny.

Because haven't been able to follow UK Census to find parents.

Apparently they came to New Zealand when their daughter Betty Stanley was about 2 years old.
Once again found a Betty Stanley born Dec 1919 Abergavenny, Wales.
Not sure about other siblings.

Just not sure where do go next, as have tried all the usual genealogy sites.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Thank you.
rainy
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 08 April 18 10:06 BST (UK)
Wonder if Harold went out first then wife and daughter followed?

12 Nov.1921 "Ormuz" departed London, England for Sydney, Australia
Mrs. A. Stanley, age 24, housewife; Miss B. Stanley, age 2. Address: 7 Rhydynos St., Blaenavon, Mon., getting off in to Sydney then travelling on to New Zealand.
The family above in manifest also giving same U.K. address-
Mrs. L.M. Walsh, midwife, age 38; Miss K. Walsh, age 4; Miss S. Walsh, age 2. Also getting off in Sydney with final destination N.Z.
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: rainy on Sunday 08 April 18 10:31 BST (UK)
Thank you I think that could be Harold Stanley's, wife and daughter.

I have also been given info re a mid wife but didn't and couldn't find name I was given.
But could be lady with them that you have found.

That's great, many thanks.

I have just wondered whether Harold went to WW1 and so been looking at Find My Past WW1 Service Records. There are several Harold Stanley's. But there is one that was a Coal miner so wondering whether it may be Harold Stanley I am trying to follow.

Many thanks.
rainy
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 08 April 18 10:41 BST (UK)
I have looked at www.freebmd.UK at marriages and they married march 1916 Abergavenny, Wales.
Have also looked at freebmd.UK for births for Harold Stanley and this could be Dec 1891 Abergavenny Wales.
Also Alice Lynn maybe born June 1897 Abergavenny.
Once again found a Betty Stanley born Dec 1919 Abergavenny, Wales.

Those dates (March 1916, etc.) are the quarter when the registration of the even took place: Jan./Mar/. Apr./June, July/Sept., Oct./Dec.) not the actual date of the event.
An online tree gives Alice Lynn born 31 March 1897 at 3 Philips St., Blaenavon (this would fit with birth being registered in April/June quarter).
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 08 April 18 10:46 BST (UK)
Births Mar qtr 1917 
Stanley    Alice   mmn Lynn    Abergavenny    11a   87

Deaths Mar qtr 1917 
Stanley    Alice   age  0    Abergavenny    11a   80
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 08 April 18 10:49 BST (UK)
The GRO Index Search offers Mother's maiden names.
Harold's entry is:
STANLEY, HAROLD        (Mother's Maiden Name:) SMITH      
GRO Reference: 1891  D Quarter in ABERGAVENNY  Volume 11A  Page 63

There is a potential marriage for his parents:
December qtr 1886
Pontypool Registration District     vol 11a, page 233

Stanley, John Morris
+ and on the same page +
Smith, Sophia Evelyn
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: Radcliff on Sunday 08 April 18 10:51 BST (UK)
Could this be Alice in 1911,just a pointer
Alice Line a servant age not spot on
Head of household is  John Jones,
Town Blaenavon
Broad Street
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: rainy on Sunday 08 April 18 11:02 BST (UK)
Thank you KGarrad and rosie99.

Both great info and huge help.

I have looked at a 1911 UK Census Blaenavon, Monmouthshire, Wales and a Family SMITH David, Head and Sophia Smith wife and children but has Stepson for David Smith, Harold Stanley and Thomas Stanley.
So perhaps Father has died and Sophia remarried???

What do you think?

Thank you for your help.
rainy
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: rainy on Sunday 08 April 18 11:11 BST (UK)
Thank you Radcliff, hadn't looked at LINE and should have, thank you.
Also thank you aghadowey for checking free bmd.uk re births and marriages.

Some times we so easily miss a connection in families.

So do you think John Stanley who died 1893 at 27 years Abergavenny is Harold Stanley's father?

Thank you.
rainy
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: jorose on Sunday 08 April 18 11:20 BST (UK)
The Walsh family on the ship appear to be James Walsh and Lily M Fisher who married in 1916 in Abergavenny.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7P9-5G8
 - Lily Fisher (aged 28) appears as the daughter of William and Adelaide Fisher in 1911, Alice Lynn is also in household (granddaughter of William and Adelaide).

So Alice's mother was presumably a Fisher.

In 1901, Alice seems to appear in the same household but as "Fisher":
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9TR-G5R

Confusingly, Alice b. 1897 has mother's maiden name as Hughes, which makes her this line:
Thomas Lancelot Lynn married Emma Jane Hughes, 1896
Alice Lynn, b. 1897
Olive Lynn, b. 1898
Olive Lynn (infant) and Emma Jane Lynn (20) died 1898

Emma Jane Hughes was daughter of Adelaide Fisher and stepdaughter of William Fisher:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WM-TXLT


Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 08 April 18 11:43 BST (UK)
Marriage, September qtr 1894
Abergavenny Registration District     vol , page 113

Smith, David
+ and, on the same page +
Stanley, Sophia

1901 census
Menelaus Street, Roath, Cardiff

Smith, David  Head  M  32  b Liswerry, Monmouthshire
Smith, Sophia  Wife  F  28  b Usk, Monmouthshire
Smith, Tom  Son  M  13  b Blaenavon, Monmouthshire
Smith, Harold  Son  M  10  b Blaenavon
Smith, Frank  Son  M  5  b Blaenavon
Smith, Florence H  Daughter  F  1  b Cardiff
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: rainy on Sunday 08 April 18 11:50 BST (UK)
You are all amazing.
Thank you KGarrad and jorose

Thank you for marriage Sept 1894 for Sophia Stanley to David Smith..

Now that explains names given to me I couldn't follow. Name given was Lyll Fisher who was a midwife.  I looked and looked at NZ Electoral rolls.
Now I know who it is as you have unraveled the mystery jorose. Amazing when names put together in right order.
But lady I am helping just didn't do genealogy or internet. 
So thanks to you all will be able to give her some family info.
Much appreciated.
rainy
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: rainy on Wednesday 11 April 18 10:32 BST (UK)
I have found Harold Stanley and James Walsh on the Ruahine departing Southampton June 1921.

So that was what you thought that the men may have come ahead of their families.

Have also found Lily Maude Walsh's death in Lithgow NSW Australia in 1953.
Lily Maude Walsh also was registered in NZ as a Midwife training at Monmouthshire Training Centre.
Her registration being in 1922 in NZ then in Australia 1931-1933. Not sure about later.

When Alice Stanley and daughter Betty, with Lily M Walsh and daughters Kathleen and Sheila came from the UK in 1921.
Lily's father and Alice's grandfather travelled with them,William Fisher was his name.
 This ship ORMUZ departed Nov 1921 from London . The wonders of Passenger lists.

Thank you for help which then made me look for the above info.
Many thanks.
rainy
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: Mary Stanley on Tuesday 18 September 18 07:39 BST (UK)
Hi
I have been happily reading about Harold Stanley's family history, somebody else's hard work.
William Fisher was my grandmother's, Alice Stanley's step-grandfather.
I believe he moved with the Walsh family to Australia and died there too. Don't know where.
Would anybody be able to solve the mystery of my grandfather's military service. He was conscripted in 1916, as many of the labourers were. I believe he was in the Labour Corp's, his work was to drive the donkey carts to the front line with armaments,bring wounded back. Also dig the trenches, hence his nickname Digger, our pet name for him was Dig.
Regards
M Stanley
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 September 18 08:22 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat, Mary.

What was your grandfather’s name?

Also, his parent’s names?

Jamjar
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 September 18 08:43 BST (UK)
Obit for Lily Maude Walsh, cremated ROOKWOOD: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article223419131

Jamjar

Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: rainy on Tuesday 18 September 18 08:52 BST (UK)
Hello Mary I found the death of William Fisher on Trove where there was a small obituary for him.
Because I was only helping a lady whose grandfather was Harold Stanley I do not keep the info.
But just looked again .


Lithgow Mercury  3rd March 1937

Same newspaper remember correctly has Lily Walsh obituary as well.

 William Fisher came to NZ first then they shifted to NSW Australia.

I followed them through electoral rolls in NZ and Aus.


There will be a record of his Military Service but not sure exactly where.
Put your question into google and see what happens.


Happy researching.
rainy
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 September 18 09:07 BST (UK)
Obit for William Walsh: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article221873207

4896/1937 William FISHER parents JOHN and MARY LITHGOW

Jamjar
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 September 18 09:12 BST (UK)
Rainy, I can’t see how William can be Mary’s grandfather if:

William Fisher was my grandmother's, Alice Stanley's step-grandfather.
I believe he moved with the Walsh family to Australia and died there too. Don't know where.
Would anybody be able to solve the mystery of my grandfather's military service

So, are we not looking for the husband of Alice Stanley’s military record?

Is it Harold who is her grandfather?

If so it would be a UK or NZ military record search.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: Mary Stanley on Wednesday 19 September 18 05:29 BST (UK)
Thanks for the question...yes please..Harold Stanley's military record...he was conscripted in 1916..previously he was working in the steel works..
Title: Re: Harold Stanley
Post by: rainy on Wednesday 19 September 18 09:47 BST (UK)
Sorry yes Harold Stanley is Mary's grandfather.