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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Nicola Agricola on Monday 02 April 18 16:58 BST (UK)
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Please can anyone help me to decipher the Dutch handwriting in the margin of this Dutch Marriage Certificate from 1837?
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It looks to me like a list of unidentified persons (John Doe's) rather than a marriage certificate. Given that "Jan' is a common Dutch name, I'm assuming that "Jan" (rather than "Ton") is the first name of all persons on the list.
This list of names is:
Jan Second (?) - less sure about the "surname", but it fits the pattern
Jan Third
Jan Fourth
Jan Fifth
Jan Sixth
Jan Seventh
If you were to post the whole document (rather than just this list), I could give you more info on the background to - and context of - the list.
Mike
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Could it be "Pers.", abbreviated from persoon rather than "Jan". This would accord with a list of names ie. first person (signature), second person (signature) etc.
Istrice
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Mike I wondered if the first word was "Den"?
Would it nowadays say "Den Eerst"Or Den Tweedst but in old documents it was Den Eersten or Den Tweedsten etc.which seems to be the case here.
Den Derden
Den Vierden
Den Vijfden
Den Zesden
Den Zevenden.( This is still sometimes pronounced Zuiven)
Or is this a difference between Flemish and Dutch?
My son glanced through the documents Woodcutter sent ,but of course had not brought his glasses with him. I read a couple to him and we have given Woodcutter the essential information,well you have- there is lots of repetition such as Bornhem,Parochie Mechelen gemeeente Antwerpen.etc.
Cheeerio.Viktoria.
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Hi Viktoria,
Yes the first word is most probably "Den" = 'The". This makes much more sense!
Thanks for thisl
Mike
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A big thank you to everyone who replied to my request for help. It's steered me along the right path, I'm fairly sure. With the aid of Google Translate, it would appear that "The third", "The fourth" etc. are conditions that needed to be met before the marriage could take place. For example, "The third" condition is that the groom has been baptised; "The fourth" is that the Certificate of Baptism has been produced; "The fifth" is that the groom has been granted permission by his Military Commanding Officer etc. I wondered if anyone else has come across similar wording on a Dutch Marriage Certificate?
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I could only see the first column with "Den Eerst,Den Tweedst,etc.
I did not see the conditions required..
Glad you have what you need.
Viktoria.
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I have a marriage certificate for Jilles de Rouw and Maria Gerdina Teuntje van der Meer 2 april 1838 and it doesn't say anything like that down the side. It does include the permission of his commanding officer within the certificate. At the end it says "As confirmed by the copies from christening, birth and death registers presented." It sounds as though it was drawn up under the same rules as you mention, but they are not explicitly referred to, cb
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These are numbered article indicators:
Ten Tweeden: 2nd
Ten Derden: 3rd
Ten Vierden: 4th
Ten Vijfden: 5th
Ten Zesden: 6th
Ten Zevenden: 7th