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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: QuickDraw on Tuesday 27 March 18 04:12 BST (UK)
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The 1911 census has Roas [sic - Rose] Ann Flanngan [sic - Flana(i)gan] with three sons, identified as "adopted" ... https://goo.gl/6u2cWP. The eldest son James was born out of wedlock to Rose Ann on 11 November 1899 in Ballywoollen [sic - Ballywillin] (https://goo.gl/MEf4gL).
It should be easy, but I am unable to find the births for her two other sons (John and Robert). According to the census they appear to have been born out of wedlock in County Down.
Can anyone help?
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"Adopted" refers to relationship to head of household not to Rose Ann.
Note that on John's birth certificate the informant is a Mary McGrath and this is likely the same person as Mary McGraw head of household in 1911 (McGrath and McGraw are interchangeable in Ulster).
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Wonder if this illegitimate son Patrick Joseph in 1912 to a Rose Flanagan is another son?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01505/1611340.pdf
Son James (not John as in your original post) born 1899- Mary McGrath informant-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/02012/1772668.pdf
Think you've also muddled up the title- Births of Robert (c.1903) and John (c.1906) Flanngan/Flanigan/Flanagan
According to 1911 census- Robert born c1906 and John born c1903
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"Adopted" refers to relationship to head of household not to Rose Ann.
That is correct (I am not aware I said otherwise).
Note that on John's birth certificate the informant is a Mary McGrath and this is likely the same person as Mary McGraw head of household in 1911 (McGrath and McGraw are interchangeable in Ulster).
Yes .... and that is the first I see that Mary knows Rose Ann. This evidently led to the "adoption" showing on the the 1911 census (Note that the birth certificate says "James" ... not "John")
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Wonder if this illegitimate son Patrick Joseph in 1912 to a Rose Flanagan is another son?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01505/1611340.pdf
Excellent .... missed that one!
Son James (not John as in your original post) born 1899- Mary McGrath informant-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/02012/1772668.pdf
We both made that slip-up ... corrected.
Think you've also muddled up the title- Births of Robert (c.1903) and John (c.1906) Flanngan/Flanigan/Flanagan
According to 1911 census- Robert born c1906 and John born c1903
Thank you .... title corrected (spent too much time trying to track them down).
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"Adopted" refers to relationship to head of household not to Rose Ann.
That is correct (I am not aware I said otherwise).
Note that on John's birth certificate the informant is a Mary McGrath and this is likely the same person as Mary McGraw head of household in 1911 (McGrath and McGraw are interchangeable in Ulster).
Yes .... and that is the first I see that Mary knows Rose Ann. This evidently led to the "adoption" showing on the the 1911 census (Note that the birth certificate says "James" ... not "John")
Rose Ann is a boarder in 1901 with baby James
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Crossgar/Ballywillan/1230014/
But daughter on John’s McGraw’s death
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1911/05407/4510534.pdf
If that is the correct death and informant :)
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Rose Ann is a boarder in 1901 with baby James
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Crossgar/Ballywillan/1230014/
But daughter on John’s McGraw’s death
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1911/05407/4510534.pdf
If that is the correct death and informant :)
You have the correct death and informant. Seems the progression was "acquaintance" (1899 birth of first son; 1901 census) and then "adopted daughter" (1911 census; John' death certificate).
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Not ‘step daughter’ but ‘adopted daughter’.
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Not ‘step daughter’ but ‘adopted daughter’.
I stand corrected :)
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Hopefully all my errors are now corrected ... must be old age creeping in :-\
From the 1912 birth certificate that aghadowey found, it seems Rose Ann (the mother) had contact with the Downpatrick workhouse. Could it be that her sons John (c. 1903) and Robert (c. 1906) were born in the workhouse and this is why they do not seem to show up in the civil registration records? Perhaps they were registered under a different name. If so, any thoughts on a search strategy?
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I would think that children born in a workhouse more likely to be registered. The Workhouse was also the local hospital which could be why Rose's child was born there in 1912.
Have you searched for the 2 boys under McGraw/McGrath? What about tracing that family for clues to Rose and her children?
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How do you know that Robert and John are sons of Rose Ann?
There is a Robert Flannigan born to a Dorethea Flannigan in Belfast - could this be a sister of Rose and the child her nephew and not her son?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01743/1688319.pdf
There is a Dorothy Flannigan without a child in the same area of Belfast in the 1901 Census
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Have you searched for the 2 boys under McGraw/McGrath?
Yes, and also searched the Roman Catholic Records on Findmypast.
What about tracing that family for clues to Rose and her children?
I presume you mean the "McGrath/Mcgraw" family. I have searched backward and tried to find a connection between that family and Rose Ann's family, the Flanagans (e.g. was Rose Ann's adopted mother Mary once a Flanagan?) The closest I can come is a Rosanna Flanagan born 12 Oct 1876 to James and Mary Ann (nee McCormick) Flanagan (https://goo.gl/LW8aFV) and the deaths of (her parents?) James in 1877 and Mary Ann in 1876. So also looked for a connection between McGrath/McGraw and McCormick (including variations), to no avail.
But that is a different path/story, and the focus here are the births of John (c.1903) and Robert (c.1906).
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How do you know that Robert and John are sons of Rose Ann?
There is a Robert Flannigan born to a Dorethea Flannigan in Belfast - could this be a sister of Rose and the child her nephew and not her son?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01743/1688319.pdf
There is a Dorothy Flannigan without a child in the same area of Belfast in the 1901 Census
A possibility I suppose, or the two (Dorothy & Rose Ann) are cousins. Will see if I can find Dorothy's birth.