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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Smudge.Smith on Saturday 03 February 18 21:51 GMT (UK)
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I'm trying to establish whether I have a link with John Smith of Coven http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/Trains/Smith/JohnSmith.htm#menu (http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/Trains/Smith/JohnSmith.htm#menu) and http://3hammers.co.uk/about-us/history/ (http://3hammers.co.uk/about-us/history/)who was 'famous' for producing steam engines in South Staffs for use in agriculture and then into the mining industries.
Apparently, John Smith left no children but I'm hoping there is a connection either with his ancestors or his siblings.
The link I'm I'm trying to establish is very tenuous but I've more or less convinced myself that there is a link based on the fact that my grandfather Harry Smith, gt grandfather Uriah Smith and great great grandfather Henry Smith were 'engine drivers / tenders in the coal mining industry in Essington South Staffs. This seems to me a rather prestigious role compared with working at the coal face and one that was probably acquired through nepotism, notwithstanding the fact that Coven and Essington where my ancestors originate is not that far apart.
The only clues I have to go on are the 1841 census there is a Harriet Yates working as a servant for John Smith Sr. I believe Harriet is the sister of Lydia Churm (born Yates) who's parents are Thomas Yates and Hannah Yates (born Smith). It's also worth noting that I have a connection with the Yates family in as much as my 3 x Gt Grandmother Catharine (Caroline) Smith (born Tarbuck) (1814-1888) - her mother Mary Tarbuck (born Yates)(1786 -1864)
Also in the 1841 census for the Yates family
Thomas Yates - Head -35
Hanna Yates - Wife -25
Lydia Yates - Dau -4
Harriet Yates - Dau -3
Phoebe Smith - 12 - visitor
Even though I've not found a direct link with Hannah Smith and my direct descendants, I'm also wondering if Phoebe is related to Hannah by way of the Smith family name as well as being linked with John Smith of Coven?
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Hello
Advertising isn't usually permitted in these threads but I hope this is allowed... are you aware of my book 'Coven in Times Past' which has a section about John Smith? It won't help in tracing his descendants or relatives (if any) but will provide quite a bit of information if he does turn out to be related. I also have a few other bits of info about him which I've unearthed since writing the book.
One of Smith's engines is believed to have been used at Essington/Willenhall so that may be of help.
Good luck, I'd like to know if you do find a connection.
Paul
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Hi
I just found this (better late than never!). I have a lot of research on the Smith family of Coven, though many generations of John Smiths is a challenge -there are a lot of Smiths everywhere! They are a most interesting family - the people’s story and the Industrial Revolution and Methodism. I am not sure I can help on the Yates connection if that is still of interest, as nothing leaps out straight away, but I will have a dig around my tree to see what I can find.
As an aside, and not wanting to derail the thread, I believe John Smith Jnr (the 1826-1879 one) did have children but it all happens in a short window in the last five years of his life. The whole thing is very intriguing. The sequence is:
8 Sept 1874 - John Smith Snr dies in Coven and the business is being wound down (plant auctioned off).
18 Nov 1874 - Annie Whittingham, illegitimate daughter of Mary Whittingham born in Shrewsbury (50m away from Coven). Mary was a servant from Horsebrook, near Brewood. Place of residence for Mary on Annie’s birth cert is Coven.
9 Sept 1875 - John Smith marries Mary Whittingham in Shrewsbury. He was 48, she was 20.
13 January 1876 - John Clayton Smith b Shrewsbury.
5 Oct 1877 - Henry Cartwright Smith, b Wolverhampton
19 Jan 1879 - Elizabeth Jane Smith, b Saredon
2 Feb 1879 - John Smith jnr dies aged 51, Saredon, between Elizabeth being born and registered.
1881 - Mary is a widow, aged 26 in Coven with the 4 kids
1891 - Mary is a housekeeper, two kids living with John Birch Higgs (John Smith’s business partner), two kids at Orphanage/Industrial School.
1901 - Kids grown up. Mary Smith in Light Ash, Brewood and “Living on Means”
1940 - Mary dies aged 85 -Standeford, Brewood.
Perhaps Mary moved to Shrewsbury “for her confinement” to avoid a scandal? Why Shrewsbury? Can't find a link. I am fairly sure that Annie was John’s child too but not done any DNA or anything so don’t know for sure. I have not found a will for John Smith jnr and there must have been some kind of inheritance issue for Mary and the children in the years following John’s death. John Smith snr left a will in 1874 which mentions John jnr, so not sure what happened there. Perhaps there were debts?
I am sure this is the same John Smith. His widow Mary and son J. Clayton Smith help write an article about him and the Village Foundry which is later published in 1948.
Open to corrections or other interpretations/ideas or anyone else with links to the family.
PS Paul - is your book still available anywhere. Amazon has one v expensive copy!
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Hi dillybert
Do you have a copy of the 1948 article about the Village Foundry as I would very much like to see it?
I have some photographs of the Foundry which don't appear in my book, I'd be happy to send those on to you - perhaps send me a PM and we can exchange email addresses?
That seller's price on Amazon is madness and nothing to do with me! It's available from here https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/books_by_paul_robinson which will make me a profit of about £1 :-)
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Hi Paul
I have a PDF copy (it is mostly about engines!) but will drop you a message and send it on.
I bought a couple of books too!
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Hi Paul
I have a PDF copy (it is mostly about engines!) but will drop you a message and send it on.
I bought a couple of books too!
Thank you and thank you! It's mostly the foundry and engine stuff I'm interested in, I have no family connection so I look forward to receiving that.