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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:12 GMT (UK)

Title: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:12 GMT (UK)

i am looking for Mary Jane Quigley Turberville she was born 1871 in morton in marsh Gloucester the daughter of Thomas Turberville from cowbridge   and Jane Quigley from abergavenny.

they had a son David beven Quigley born abergavenny 1874 and died 1897 without issue


i found her brith as Mary J Turberville but can not find a death or marriage for her.. she vanished lol

any help appreciated

Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:18 GMT (UK)
In 1891 living with her mother in Abergavenny -  RG12 /4347 f50 p12
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:18 GMT (UK)
Could she be .... May Jennie Quigley Kathleen Dorothea Turberville 😀, of 24 Mordew Rd, daughter of Thomas Edward Turberville. Married William Henry Thomas at St John’s, Maindee, Newport, Monmouthshire on 4 Dec 1909?

Her father was deceased, and an ironmonger.

William was a widower, a gentleman, of Victoria Park Rd, Cardiff
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:29 GMT (UK)
In 1891 living with her mother in Abergavenny -  RG12 /4347 f50 p12

yes and in 1881 she is at home with her mother and her father Edward is staying st his mothers pub in cowbridge
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:31 GMT (UK)
Could she be .... May Jennie Quigley Kathleen Dorothea Turberville 😀, of 24 Mordew Rd, daughter of Thomas Edward Turberville. Married William Henry Thomas at St John’s, Maindee, Newport, Monmouthshire on 4 Dec 1909?

Her father was deceased, and an ironmonger.

William was a widower, a gentleman, of Victoria Park Rd, Cardiff


Hi there

it is possible but her name has changed some . lol  her father in the 1871 census taken in abergavenny says he was an iron monger and he died 1888..

Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:34 GMT (UK)
The 1871 also says her father is Thomas Edward .....

If it helps, the witnesses were James Berry or Perry, and Constance Ethel Radcliffe.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:35 GMT (UK)
Could she be .... May Jennie Quigley Kathleen Dorothea Turberville 😀, of 24 Mordew Rd, daughter of Thomas Edward Turberville. Married William Henry Thomas at St John’s, Maindee, Newport, Monmouthshire on 4 Dec 1909?

Her father was deceased, and an ironmonger.

William was a widower, a gentleman, of Victoria Park Rd, Cardiff


but when i found the death for this lady it says she was born 1865? but no birth for her with this name

Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:39 GMT (UK)
Possible son.... Francis Henry Capel Picton Thomas, mother Turberville, registered in Cardiff, JunQ 1909. 11a, 354.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:41 GMT (UK)
her death shown is 47 yeas which is 1865, i wonder if it was transcribed wrong and it should say age 42
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:41 GMT (UK)
i could not find her in the 1901 to confirm her brith place
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:44 GMT (UK)
her death shown is 47 yeas which is 1865, i wonder if it was transcribed wrong and it should say age 42

Could she be .... May Jennie Quigley Kathleen Dorothea Turberville 😀, of 24 Mordew Rd, daughter of Thomas Edward Turberville. Married William Henry Thomas at St John’s, Maindee, Newport, Monmouthshire on 4 Dec 1909?

Her father was deceased, and an ironmonger.

William was a widower, a gentleman, of Victoria Park Rd, Cardiff


but when i found the death for this lady it says she was born 1865? but no birth for her with this name

How do you know her death if you didn’t know her married name?
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:51 GMT (UK)
i know her birth year is 1870

i checked the death year of
May Jennie Quigley Kathleen Dorothea Thomas which shows this lady died in 1912 aged 47 which gives a birth year of 1865 not 1870 unless her age was not 47 but 42 which would give a birth year of 1970
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:53 GMT (UK)
If the Francis HCPT Thomas is her son, he married twice.... in 1934 to Millie R Davies (in Gower, Swansea) and in 1951 also in Swansea to a ? Griffiths.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:53 GMT (UK)
but cannot find them in the 1911 census which would confirm her brith place
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:54 GMT (UK)
i know her birth year is 1870

i checked the death year of
May Jennie Quigley Kathleen Dorothea Thomas which shows this lady died in 1912 aged 47 which gives a birth year of 1865 not 1870 unless her age was not 47 but 42 which would give a birth year of 1970

Apologies, I hadn’t found her death 🙄
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:55 GMT (UK)
but cannot find them in the 1911 census which would confirm her brith place

No I can’t either, but it does look like her, esp with the father’s name and occupation matching.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:58 GMT (UK)
Just realised that the son’s birth was registered - as Thomas - before they were married. And the GRO is showing mmn as Turberville.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:01 GMT (UK)
but cannot find them in the 1911 census which would confirm her brith place

No I can’t either, but it does look like her, esp with the father’s name and occupation matching.

yes i must say it is a good match even tho her name changes some ,, but her mothers maiden name being Quigley. and her father being Thomas Edward and an iron monger,
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:05 GMT (UK)
Just realised that the son’s birth was registered - as Thomas - before they were married. And the GRO is showing mmn as Turberville.


what do u mean son was registered as thomas before they were married ?

and i thought it didn't give mother madian name until 1912 ?
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:06 GMT (UK)
how do you know francis mother was a turberville as can't see that on his birth on the GRO
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:08 GMT (UK)
Just found the couple in 1911 but not the possible son. Can’t post 1911 details but doesn’t look like the right person sorry 😫  as she wasn’t born in Gloucester. Matches the death though.

Unless of course she had a reason to add a few years to her age and amend her place of birth 🙄 Sorry, looked to good to not be right ....
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:10 GMT (UK)
how do you know francis mother was a turberville as can't see that on his birth on the GRO

It’s on the GRO with the reference i gave JunQ 1909, Cardiff, 11a, 354
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:11 GMT (UK)
ahh yes it is a good match with the rest thou lol... no seem a bit much to alter her name . birth year and birth location ,,, but thank you for looking
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:15 GMT (UK)
how do you know francis mother was a turberville as can't see that on his birth on the GRO

It’s on the GRO with the reference i gave JunQ 1909, Cardiff, 11a, 354

i checked this and does not show his mother madden name as they didn't give them until 1912. maybe cause its in his middle names . but its not the right one now lol ..
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:18 GMT (UK)
how do you know francis mother was a turberville as can't see that on his birth on the GRO

It’s on the GRO with the reference i gave JunQ 1909, Cardiff, 11a, 354

i checked this and does not show his mother madden name as they didn't give them until 1912. maybe cause its in his middle names . but its not the right one now lol ..

The full entry is shown on the GRO website and mother’s maiden names are given from 1837. A - for the maiden name indicates an illegitimate birth. Are you looking at freeBMD not the GRO site?
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:21 GMT (UK)
There isn’t a birth for a May Jennie Quigley Dorothea Turberville in the 1860s and while a good number of births were unregistered at that time i still feel that she may be the lady you are looking for.   
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:26 GMT (UK)
how do you know francis mother was a turberville as can't see that on his birth on the GRO

It’s on the GRO with the reference i gave JunQ 1909, Cardiff, 11a, 354


oh yes very interesting ,, i see it now ,,, handy to know

i checked this and does not show his mother madden name as they didn't give them until 1912. maybe cause its in his middle names . but its not the right one now lol ..

The full entry is shown on the GRO website and mother’s maiden names are given from 1837. A - for the maiden name indicates an illegitimate birth. Are you looking at freeBMD not the GRO site?
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:29 GMT (UK)
The GRO site shows the Mary you are looking for as Mary Jane Quigley Turberville, mother Quigley, registered in Shipton on Stour, vol 06D, page 569.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:30 GMT (UK)
There isn’t a birth for a May Jennie Quigley Dorothea Turberville in the 1860s and while a good number of births were unregistered at that time i still feel that she may be the lady you are looking for.


did you find them in 1911 looking for his name or hers as can't find them lol.... yes its a hard one as birth name Mary Jane Quigley to May jennie Quigley Dorothea,, with wrong name , dob, and place of birth ..

but everything else matches perfect .
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:32 GMT (UK)
.... hers 😀
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:33 GMT (UK)
There's a Dorothy Turberville on the 1901 Census living in Barry with a Noah Thomas - ref RG13  4993
 151  42.

The age, 26, doesn't fit but birthplace is Morton, Glous.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:35 GMT (UK)
The GRO site shows the Mary you are looking for as Mary Jane Quigley Turberville, mother Quigley, registered in Shipton on Stour, vol 06D, page 569.

and the baptism
First name(s)   Mary Jane
Last name   Turberville
Gender   Female
Birth year   -
Birth place   -
Baptism year   1870
Baptism date   06 Nov 1870
Place   Moreton-In-Marsh
County   Gloucestershire
Country   England
Father's first name(s)   Thomas
Father's last name   Turberville
Mother's first name(s)   Jane
Mother's last name   
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:38 GMT (UK)
There's a Dorothy Turberville on the 1901 Census living in Barry with a Noah Thomas - ref RG13  4993
 151  42.

The age, 26, doesn't fit but birthplace is Morton, Glous.

intresting looking at her age on the census now if that was 21  and she living with a thomas i wonder if she married a relative of his ...
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:41 GMT (UK)
There’s a private tree on Ancestry which has Mary Jane Quigley Turberville in it, with 3 records and 4 sources. May be worth contacting tbe tree owner (unless it’s yours!).
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:46 GMT (UK)
There’s a private tree on Ancestry which has Mary Jane Quigley Turberville in it, with 3 records and 4 sources. May be worth contacting tbe tree owner (unless it’s yours!).

 yes just found that and have sent message asking . but unless they are immediate family they may have run in to the same wall as me but worth a try ... may be worth ordering the full birth marriage and death cert see if there is any clues in the names.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:52 GMT (UK)
There's a Dorothy Turberville on the 1901 Census living in Barry with a Noah Thomas - ref RG13  4993
 151  42.

The age, 26, doesn't fit but birthplace is Morton, Glous.

intresting looking at her age on the census now if that was 21  and she living with a thomas  wonder if she married a relative of his ...

My thoughts exactly about her meeting her future husband via Noah ...
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 19:59 GMT (UK)
There's a Dorothy Turberville on the 1901 Census living in Barry with a Noah Thomas - ref RG13  4993
 151  42.

The age, 26, doesn't fit but birthplace is Morton, Glous.



intresting looking at her age on the census now if that was 21  and she living with a thomas  wonder if she married a relative of his ...


My thoughts exactly about her meeting her future husband via Noah ...



 i will have look at noah line  to see if i can find a connection with William
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 24 January 18 20:16 GMT (UK)
Mary/Dorothea etc is with her mother on the 1891 Census and brother David.
There's a death for a Jane Turberville, age 56, Abergavenny, Jun Qtr 1899 - age fits the 1891 Census.

Cannot see any sign of Mary/Dorothea or David in Monmouthshire on the 1901 Census. Looks as if they might be having to make their way in the world.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 20:35 GMT (UK)
Mary/Dorothea etc is with her mother on the 1891 Census and brother David.
There's a death for a Jane Turberville, age 56, Abergavenny, Jun Qtr 1899 - age fits the 1891 Census.

Cannot see any sign of Mary/Dorothea or David in Monmouthshire on the 1901 Census. Looks as if they might be having to make their way in the world.

Jane died 1899 she is Mary and David mother . David died 1897.

Mary Jane Quigley Turberville disappears after 1891.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 24 January 18 20:39 GMT (UK)
This is why the Dorothy 1901 is so intriguing - now out there on her own.
 
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 20:40 GMT (UK)
Just found the couple in 1911 but not the possible son. Can’t post 1911 details but doesn’t look like the right person sorry 😫  as she wasn’t born in Gloucester. Matches the death though.

Unless of course she had a reason to add a few years to her age and amend her place of birth 🙄 Sorry, looked to good to not be right ....


lol still can't find this. but do you mean that francis HCP Thomas is not there son ..?
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 20:41 GMT (UK)
This is why the Dorothy 1901 is so intriguing - now out there on her own.

yes its a strange one for me .....  lol   .. killing my brain
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: welshspencer on Wednesday 24 January 18 21:01 GMT (UK)
The GRO site shows the Mary you are looking for as Mary Jane Quigley Turberville, mother Quigley, registered in Shipton on Stour, vol 06D, page 569.

and the baptism
First name(s)   Mary Jane
Last name   Turberville
Gender   Female
Birth year   -
Birth place   -
Baptism year   1870
Baptism date   06 Nov 1870
Place   Moreton-In-Marsh
County   Gloucestershire
Country   England
Father's first name(s)   Thomas
Father's last name   Turberville
Mother's first name(s)   Jane
Mother's last name



my brain must be asleep  .. good point , i missed it .

the baptism was glouster but like you pointed out the birth is not .lol  even worse it for some reason gives warkishire lol

 if we look at her parents marriage  1870 in abergavenny Monmouth the place where brother davids birth in 1874 took place

so they got married in abergavenny the had there daughter in warwickshire in the same year. then had her baptised in glossier and then back to wales to appear in the 1871 census again in abergavenny

now having found the 1911 census of this other lady /or same person with similar names  it has her birth as 1867 but born in abergavenny .

so there is the right location of where they were, similar names , same fathers names and occupations on marriage certificate .  so out by a few years on the birth  but saying that the other lady called may says she died 1912 given her birth as 1865 but the census gives it as 1867, so quiet possible there..

and the children in the 1911 must be her step children by his first marriage

Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 21:48 GMT (UK)
Just found the couple in 1911 but not the possible son. Can’t post 1911 details but doesn’t look like the right person sorry 😫  as she wasn’t born in Gloucester. Matches the death though.

Unless of course she had a reason to add a few years to her age and amend her place of birth 🙄 Sorry, looked to good to not be right ....


lol still can't find this. but do you mean that francis HCP Thomas is not there son ..?

Not sure, just he’s not with them on the 1911.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 21:54 GMT (UK)
According to the internet, Shipston on Stour is in Warwickshire - but close to the Gloucestershire border. Guess Morton in the Marsh is the actual place (village?) where she was born but across the border from the registration district 😀
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Wednesday 24 January 18 22:33 GMT (UK)
The baptism of David (at St Mary’s, Abergavenny) and the burials of both David and mother Jane (at Holy Trinity, Abergavenny) all give Merthyr Rd, Abergavenny as their address.

David’s baptism gives Thomas’ occupation as commercial traveller which may explain the moving about, perhaps before settling down as an ironmonger.

This is presumably Jane’s baptism, also at St Mary’s, Abergavenny, on 20 July 1842, daughter of Thomas Quigley and Jane, of Frogmore St, Thomas a writer. Also a brother, Edward, baptised on 15 June 1840, of New Rd, Thomas a writer.

Thomas was buried on 16 Sep 1842, aged 28, of New Rd, died of phthisis (amazing detail in burial register!). Jane was buried on 10 March 1883, aged 70.

Marriage at Nash, county of Monmouth, on 13 August 1839, Thomas Quigley, writer, of Abergavenny, father Thomas, a servant. Jane Williams, of Nash, father William, a coachman. Thomas and Jane both signed.
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 25 January 18 10:31 GMT (UK)
Genuki Registration Districts

Moreton in the Marsh
County - Gloucestershire

Registration District -
1837-1932  - Shipston on Stour
1932 - 1937 - Stow on the Wold
1937 - 1974 - North Cotswold

 
Title: Re: Help finding marriage or death
Post by: Deirdre784 on Thursday 25 January 18 11:05 GMT (UK)
May Jennie Quigley Kathleen Dorothea Thomas was buried at Cathays cemetery in Cardiff on 19 Dec 1912. Section B, Plot 827a.

Recorded as the wife of William Henry Thomas of 37 Hamilton St, St John, Cardiff. There is no-one else buried with her.