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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Casabeag on Friday 12 January 18 20:36 GMT (UK)

Title: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: Casabeag on Friday 12 January 18 20:36 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I am still trying to source information on my g.gmother Mary Anne Kelly - who lived at 50 Rutland Square which changed to 50 Parnell Square in later years she married Thomas Kelly.  Her father was Owen Carroll and she had a sister Bridget.  I can't find anything on her death.  I do not have a dod but do know that her son died in 7th March 1923 in the Irish Army aged 18yrs and she got sick after that I've been looking through deaths from 1930-1945 but can't find anything.  My aunt was born in 1945 and she said her grandmother had died before she was born.

Her dob was 2nd May 1882 but again I can't find a birth cert to match that.  The closest I can find is Mary Anne Carroll born to Owen Carroll & Eliza Weir in Feb 1882.

Can anybody help me get to the bottom of her death.

TIA
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: heywood on Friday 12 January 18 20:54 GMT (UK)
Hello,

Is this the birth you have -1881 though not 1882

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02842/2041629.pdf

When did she marry? What is her father's occupation on her marriage?

Heywood
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 12 January 18 20:54 GMT (UK)
We need to perhaps backtrack a bit to sort this out  ;)

Link to earlier topic- (haven't read through all 6 pages yet)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=598588

Her dob was 2nd May 1882 but again I can't find a birth cert to match that.  The closest I can find is Mary Anne Carroll born to Owen Carroll & Eliza Weir in Feb 1882.
Exactly where did you get ther date of birth as "2nd May 1882"? was this an actual record (or scanned image or transcript?

Owen Carroll married 1880 Elizabeth ware-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1881-1904_ma_0503
daughter Mary Anne born 15 Feb.1881 according to baptism-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.marys_pro-cathedral_mf_1880-1889_ba_0140

still typing...
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: heywood on Friday 12 January 18 21:10 GMT (UK)
That baptism links to the birth record I posted.
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 12 January 18 21:17 GMT (UK)
That baptism links to the birth record I posted.

 ;)

Added- marriage of Thomas Kelly & Mary Anne Carroll for reference-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1905/10153/5694278.pdf
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: dathai on Friday 12 January 18 21:24 GMT (UK)
1901 ?  Matthew son of Matthew
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Inns_Quay/St__Mary_s_Terrace/1281189/

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10427/5796570.pdf
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 12 January 18 21:28 GMT (UK)
Daughter Phillis born 1913-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01453/1593727.pdf

1913 address matches this family in 1911 census-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_City/Swift_s_Row/39388
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: dathai on Friday 12 January 18 21:33 GMT (UK)
1940 age 53 informant T Kelly 50 Parnell Sq
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04731/4265442.pdf

buried Glasnevin
https://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: dathai on Friday 12 January 18 21:42 GMT (UK)
death of son Thomas 1942 age 21
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1942/04690/4251121.pdf
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: dathai on Friday 12 January 18 22:38 GMT (UK)
Owen Carroll's parents were John Carroll and Bridget Redmond
from Coolteigue ? Wexford
Margaret no 8 here 1864
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03624/2337841.pdf
Thomas no 180 here 1865
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03581/2320173.pdf
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: dathai on Friday 12 January 18 23:10 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth Weir/Ware's parents were Mathew Ware and Mary Callaghan

Mathew Weir was born 18th May 1874 Greenock,Scotland to the same parents
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Inns_Quay/St__Mary_s_Terrace/1281189/
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: dathai on Friday 12 January 18 23:19 GMT (UK)
see Bridget McGrath dtr of Richard McGrath and Bridget Callaghan 54 Mabbott St sponsor Mathew Ware
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.marys_pro-cathedral_mf_1880-1889_ba_0107

They were married in Greenock 24th Nov 1874
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: dathai on Saturday 13 January 18 10:08 GMT (UK)
http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8302.0.html

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=696770.0
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: myluck! on Sunday 14 January 18 12:38 GMT (UK)
1940 age 53 informant T Kelly 50 Parnell Sq
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04731/4265442.pdf

buried Glasnevin
https://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml

death of son Thomas 1942 age 21
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1942/04690/4251121.pdf

I would agree with dathai that this is Mary Anne KELLY nee Carroll that you are looking for

Daughter Josephine Patricia KELLY married on Jun 28 1939 from the same address LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1939/08853/5201589.pdf)
as Mary Anne KELLY and Thomas KELLY Jnr died

Son George KELLY died Dec 10 1942 at same address; informant father Thomas LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1942/04675/4245805.pdf)

It also implies that Thomas KELLY was still alive in December 1942 when George died
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: Casabeag on Sunday 14 January 18 19:50 GMT (UK)
Wow  :o Thank you all so much for the information.  It is great to have the actual records which is what I struggled with for the past year.   

Is it right for me to think that Mary Anne Carroll born at 54 M'abbot Street is indeed my g.grandmother however the date of birth I got as the 2nd May 1882 came from Military records for her son William, about half way through the document under the Pensions Act. I know records were not always correct back then but this could be something that has me going totally down the wrong avenue.

http://mspcsearch.militaryarchives.ie/docs/files//PDF_Pensions/R3/3D121WilliamKelly/W3D121WilliamKelly.pdf

Again thank you for all the information in the last couple of days much appreciated & exciting  ;)
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: myluck! on Monday 15 January 18 09:18 GMT (UK)
Looking at all of dathai's research you have

- A Mary Anne Carroll living with her uncle Matthew WEIR at St. Mary's Terrace in 1901

- Matthew WEIR married Mary REILLY on July 25 1898 and gave his father as Matthew WEIR

- Link to forum from 2008 shows member Shakti677 looking for information on this family; gives Matthew's parents as Matthew WEIR/WARE and Mary (O')CALLAGHAN

- When Elizabeth WARE married Owen CARROLL on June 6 1880 these are the names given as her parents on the church record

Given this information it is highly probable that the 1901 census return is of your Mary Anne CARROLL and probable that she is the same person who married Thomas KELLY on Jan 22 1905.

As dates of birth/ages were not of high importance to many at that time and literacy was low, these  are often out by quite a substantial amount of time.

Have you looked for the church record of the marriage in 1905? There is a possibility that this recorded both parents names.
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: Casabeag on Monday 15 January 18 10:59 GMT (UK)
Yes I have the marriage cert from 22 Jan 1905 and her father is listed as Owen Carroll, his father Micheal Kelly.  Thomas & Mary residence at time of marriage is 44 upper Dorset St.
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: myluck! on Monday 15 January 18 11:20 GMT (UK)
The certificate you have is most likely the civil certificate

The church would also have recorded the marriage - 1905 is too late to be on line but there is a possibility that the church recorded both parents names.  If you look at this LINK (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1862-1881_ma_0626) to a marrriage in the church in 1904 their register showed both parents' names. Unfortunately 1905 is not on line you would have to contact the church.
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: Casabeag on Wednesday 24 January 18 18:03 GMT (UK)
Update: I have ordered the parish certificate and they have confirmed the parents of Mary Anne Carroll are indeed Owen Carroll & Elizabeth Weir both deceased in 1905

Her husband Thomas Kelly parents Michael Kelly & Mary Carroll also deceased.

Now the Weir connection is confirmed and I also now have a surname for Thomas's mother so thank-you all for your responses.
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: myluck! on Thursday 25 January 18 09:46 GMT (UK)
You're welcome - great to get an update
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: Casabeag on Saturday 22 December 18 21:50 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

Today I thought I had a break through finding Mary Anne Kelly burial place, I went to Glasnevin Cemetery and although I had DOD I did have an address and low and behold I got a grave number I was so excited.  I walked a bit to find ML64 the final resting place of Mart Anne to be saddened to see not even a headstone.

I now have a DOD as 10/01/1940 Also Glasnevin  said there was no owner of the grave as I asked where there any other names in record and they said no what does this mean?

TIA
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 22 December 18 22:21 GMT (UK)
Isn't this her death?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04731/4265442.pdf

which was posted previously for you almost a year ago-
1940 age 53 informant T Kelly 50 Parnell Sq
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04731/4265442.pdf

buried Glasnevin
https://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: Casabeag on Sunday 23 December 18 00:12 GMT (UK)
It was sorry I over looked  that,  I couldn't find it on the search.
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: dathai on Sunday 23 December 18 06:43 GMT (UK)
Usually with Glasnevin  if there is no owner of the grave it means it is an unpurchased grave.
When the burial's took place family if any had 5 yrs to pay for the grave if not the grave was now the property of Glasnevin and could be sold on in later yrs.
I came across this some yrs back when i found a grave belonging to one of the wife's relatives an infant buried 1903 she was the sole occupant of that grave for 100 yrs , when i found the grave in 2009 it had a brand new headstone to a different family.
Inquiring at the office i was given the above explanation and that my wife's family could not put any marker's on the grave.
Title: Re: Mary Anne Kelly nee Carroll
Post by: Casabeag on Sunday 23 December 18 10:38 GMT (UK)
Thanks makes sense with the grave I just realised that in 1940 my grandmother Mary Anne daughter was 7mths pregnant at the time of her death  her child born in the March then died that December so a hard year then followed by the death of two of Mary's sons George & Thomas Kelly in 1942 I think these are both in buried in Glasnevin so I'll get their Grave numbers next time I'm there,  I'm presuming if they were in Mary's plot they would have mentioned that yesterday.

So Mary listed one other son in William's military records James who was aged 1 and 1/4 in 1923. I can't find anything on James Kelly yet.

Thanks