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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Joanne1969 on Sunday 07 January 18 12:42 GMT (UK)

Title: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Sunday 07 January 18 12:42 GMT (UK)
Hi,

After some years of trying to find my Grt x2 Grandmother Jane Bowen I've run out of places to search and require, if possible, some help. 

I have gone down all the usual lines of research by using Ancestry, Find my past, Family search, Genuki and various others and have found some information but she seems a very elusive lady.

If I share the information I have, maybe someone would be able to help me  :)  I apologise for the length of info but without it it's very difficult to explain.

Alice Bowen my Grt Grandmother was born in The Union Workhouse, Caersws, Montgomeryshire 10/05/1884.  Her Mother Jane entered the workhouse due to her pregnancy on 05/04/1884, her occupation a servant and her year of birth 1863.  Jane remained there until shortly after Alice's birth.  (I have this information from the register at Montgomeryshire County Hall)

The next document I have is Alice's Baptism which took place at Lydham, a small village in Shropshire just over the Montgomeryshire border.
Alice was baptised on the 15/07/1884 Jane's abode was the "Pentre" (area in Churchstoke, Montgomeryshire) and is described as a single woman.

As the story goes, Jane was unable to look after her daughter at this time and was
forced to put Alice with a foster family in the village of Churchstoke, Montgomeryshire.  The family were the Trow family and I believe often took in children in these circumstances.  Alice I don't think was adopted but she acquired a different name; she became known as Bessie Trow.
I know what happened to Alice my Grt Grandmother but it's her mother Jane that I'm struggling with.

If Jane is telling the truth that she was born in 1863 the only one I can find on the GRO birth index which fits the area is a Jane Bowen born in Q4 1863 to a mother of the maiden name Andrews.  I have found a marriage to a Thomas Bowen in Q2 1863 to Elizabeth M Andrews again this fits.  I also have a baptism for Jane 03/01/1864 which makes me think perhaps her birthday was in December??
Jane is the first child according to the dates there are siblings.

After Alice's baptism I can find nothing, I'm told that Jane came back for her daughter when she was able to care for her but Alice wouldn't go, I'm also told that Jane married and was known as Granny Coxall.  The spelling of this name is on the back of an old photograph whether it's correct I'm not sure.  I believe she had a daughter referred to as Pollie and that she moved to Stroud in  Gloucestershire, I don't know her husbands name or anything else. I can find no marriage from a Bowen to a Coxall (or any other version of this name) although I did find a marriage from a Jane Bowen to a Bather then a Coxall but I don't think it's the right Jane.

I know she was alive in around 1924 as there is a photograph of her and my Grt Uncle.

If anyone has any advise or knowledge that could help in finding Jane I can't tell you how grateful I would be.

Kind regards

Joanne Davies



Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 12:49 GMT (UK)
Have you discounted the Jane Bowen daughter of Samuel Bowen who was resident in Churchstoke in 1881 RG11/5489 f91 p15. 
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: chempat on Sunday 07 January 18 12:58 GMT (UK)
Any chance you could you scan in the back of the photo with the name on it?

If not, what could the name be if not Coxall, or is that fairly definite?
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Sunday 07 January 18 13:28 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately I'm unable to attach it's too big.  But it's written COXALL. 
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: wrjones on Sunday 07 January 18 13:44 GMT (UK)
There is a Birth given in the Newtown District of Montgomeryshire in the July quarter of 1884.Despite using the new GRO Index no Mother's maiden name is given.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: wrjones on Sunday 07 January 18 13:51 GMT (UK)
When and where did Alice marry if at all?

Regards
William Russell Jones
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Sunday 07 January 18 13:56 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Alice married 29/10/1910 to Charles John Francis in Welshpool Montgomeryshire.

On her marriage certificate in the place of her father Evan Bowen (Deceased) is written but was told that this wasn't her Father, my Grandmother told me that it was Alice's Grandfather but as I can find no Jane Bowen with a father Evan I've had to forget about it.

Kind regards Joanne
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: mazi on Sunday 07 January 18 15:00 GMT (UK)
Jane Bather, later to marry a  Coxall, gives her place of birth in the 1901 as brocton, lydbury shropshire.

This is so close to Alice’s baptism place that it may be worth a second look

Mike
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 15:19 GMT (UK)
Possibly Mike's Jane at Wilmington Hall, Chirbury in 1881
Jane   Bowen   Servant   Single   Female   25   1856   Gen Servant Domestic   born Worthen, Shropshire
RG11/ 5491 f47 p2


Ignore that one she is too old  ::)
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 15:25 GMT (UK)
Probably more like it  :-\
RG11/2620 f63 p3
Jane   Bowen   Servant   18   1863   General Servant   born Lydbury North, Shropshire
Living at Middle Woodbatch, Bishops Castle, Clun in the household of John Beddoes Morris
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: mazi on Sunday 07 January 18 15:28 GMT (UK)
Probably more like it  :-\
RG11/2620 f63 p3
Jane   Bowen   Servant   18   1863   General Servant   born Lydbury North, Shropshire
Living at Middle Woodbatch, Bishops Castle, Clun in the household of John Beddoes Morris
.             

That was my favourite, there is even a possible father there :) :)

Mike

Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 15:31 GMT (UK)
I think you may have cracked it Mike  ;D

1871  :-\
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFVQ-3Y1
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 15:43 GMT (UK)
1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X72D-XDG

age on transcript possibly wrong  ::)
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 15:48 GMT (UK)
Possibly Pollie

BATHER, MARY  JANE mmn BOWEN     
1888  June Quarter in CLUN 
Volume 06A  Page 581
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 15:54 GMT (UK)
Possibly Pollie

BATHER, MARY  JANE mmn BOWEN     
1888  June Quarter in CLUN 
Volume 06A  Page 581

1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W9T7-FT2
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: mazi on Sunday 07 January 18 16:03 GMT (UK)
It all looks good, but why caersws workhouse I wonder,

Mike
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: chempat on Sunday 07 January 18 16:25 GMT (UK)
I cannot see a first marriage for Thomas Coxall nor a possible death for his first wife, also, would he marry someone who is 20 years older, according to that link?

Do you think the age is wrong, and that this is his death
Deaths September quarter 1922
Thomas Coxall age  57 at  Atcham   
so born about 1865
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: chempat on Sunday 07 January 18 16:31 GMT (UK)
If Thomas was born then (1865), possibly married Emma Downes in 1885, who could have died in 1901.
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 16:36 GMT (UK)
Yes I do think that is Thomas's death.  It almost agrees with the last census original  ;)
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: chempat on Sunday 07 January 18 16:41 GMT (UK)
Jane's death from free bmd?
Deaths March quarter  1943   
Jane Coxall age  78   the place is unreadable as shown on the original, but Ancestry has it as Staffordshire
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Sunday 07 January 18 16:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Rosie and Mike,

Thanks for all you have researched.  I'm trying to get my head around all the info, I know that there was a Jane Bowen born in Clun
BOWEN, JANE       PERRY  mmn   
GRO Reference: 1864  M Quarter in CLUN UNION  Volume 06A  Page 592 I think that this is the one that married Bather.

I keep going back to the year of birth Jane entered in the workhouse 1863 and the connection to Churchstoke and her living in the Pentre, Churchstoke when Alice was baptised.  I'm thinking she must have known the Trow family to trust them.  But the only connection from a Bowen to Coxall is through Bather  ::)

I have been told that there are Coxall's in the Bishops Castle area (or were) which fits the area of your info but I don't know if she was born in Montgomery why she would say she was born in Lydbury Noth, maybe she wanted to start a fresh.  ???

I do know that she worked at Maesmawr Farm, Caersws but unfortunately this information is between the census of 1881 & 1891 this may explain why she entered the Caersws Work house and not Fordon Workhouse which is in the area from which I think she was from.

Thanks again Joanne




Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: chempat on Sunday 07 January 18 16:45 GMT (UK)
Derbyshire burials on Ancestry has Jane Coxall buried on January 9th 1943, died at 145 Belvedere (??) Road, Burton on Trent.

There is a Jane Coxall in Swadlincote on the 1939.
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 16:51 GMT (UK)
Don't forget that many births were missed from registration this early on so you may not find a certificate for Jane.
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 17:23 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all you have researched.  I'm trying to get my head around all the info, I know that there was a Jane Bowen born in Clun
BOWEN, JANE       PERRY  mmn   
GRO Reference: 1864  M Quarter in CLUN UNION  Volume 06A  Page 592 I think that this is the one that married Bather.

I think you may need to buy the 'Bather' marriage certificate  ;)
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: mazi on Sunday 07 January 18 17:29 GMT (UK)
Don’t forget that Alice was not baptised till 3 months after her birth, by then she was likely with the Trow family so residence would be Churchstoke.

My thoughts are that the Coxall link is too strong to be disregarded, but they are just my thoughts. the much wenlock births for Thomas seem also to be spelt cocksall or cockshill
Mike


Added, I agree with Rosie99 about the marriage cert.
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 17:34 GMT (UK)
Online tree has Jane Bowen/Bather/Coxall's parents as William Bowen & Elizabeth Davies
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: mazi on Sunday 07 January 18 17:42 GMT (UK)
It may help when you are pondering to remember that Jane was alone and fending for herself, her mum had died a few years earlier, so she did not really have a home to go back to.

Mike
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 07 January 18 18:19 GMT (UK)
Just for information, the GRO would still probably be cheaper for the certificate
1886
BOWEN   Jane   
BATHER   Edward   
Clun Register Office or Registrar Attended, Clun   Shrewsbury   RO-C/3/28

1915
BATHER   Jane   
COXALL   Thomas   
Atcham Register Office or Registrar Attended   Shrewsbury   RO-S-AT/27/197
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Tuesday 09 January 18 21:30 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Just a quick update re Jane Bowen - I found a baptism for a Jane Bowen 1865 16/01/1865 with parents William and Elizabeth.  Lydbury North, Shropshire.  I think it's too late but as you say the marriage certs will hopefully state the Father.

I've also been pondering over the 1891 census with the elder sister to Jane, Elizabeth Bather aged 5 approx birth year 1886.  There is only the mention of "Pollie" (possibly Mary Jane) in the letter to Alice from Jane and a son in law (no name) which made me think maybe Elizabeth died.
I think she would have mentioned her? I don't know.

I found, quite by chance a death only the transcription on Find my past of a Lizzie Owen last name Bathers, gender unknown, birth year 1886, age at death 12, death year 1898, Newport, Shropshire.
Massive coincidence that the second first name states Owen, I'm thinking Bowen?????

BATHERS, LIZZIE  OWEN     12     
GRO Reference: 1898  D Quarter in NEWPORT SALOP AND STAFFORD  Volume 06A  Page 479

Anyway, you both given me much to think about I hope I can check in now and again on my progress  ;)

Kind regards

Joanne
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 13 January 18 11:45 GMT (UK)

I found, quite by chance a death only the transcription on Find my past of a Lizzie Owen last name Bathers, gender unknown, birth year 1886, age at death 12, death year 1898, Newport, Shropshire.
Massive coincidence that the second first name states Owen, I'm thinking Bowen?????

BATHERS, LIZZIE  OWEN     12     
GRO Reference: 1898  D Quarter in NEWPORT SALOP AND STAFFORD  Volume 06A  Page 479


The GRO index has her as Lizzie Owen Bathers - her burial entry in the parish register (Adbaston, Staffordshire) also has her with the same names (she had diptheria)
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 13 January 18 11:54 GMT (UK)

I've also been pondering over the 1891 census with the elder sister to Jane, Elizabeth Bather aged 5 approx birth year 1886.  There is only the mention of "Pollie" (possibly Mary Jane) in the letter to Alice from Jane and a son in law (no name) which made me think maybe Elizabeth died.
I think she would have mentioned her? I don't know.

Edward Bather married Jane Owen Dec qtr 1886

I suspect that this may be Elizabeths birth registration
OWEN, ELIZABETH       (no mothers maiden name on index)
1886  March Quarter
CLUN  Volume 06A  Page 594
Title: Re: Jane Bowen Montgomeryshire
Post by: Joanne1969 on Saturday 13 January 18 12:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Rosie, Elizabeth's birth and death becoming clearer now; if she was born in the MQ 1886 Jane and Edward didn't marry until the DQ maybe that explains the two surnames albeit Owen.
That's amazing you found out what she died of, I have seen Montgomeryshire burial registers very informative I will try and have a bash at the one for Staffordshire thank you.
Joanne